EPT2017 Esports General Discussion - Page 18
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St3MoR
Spain3256 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On June 08 2017 19:28 St3MoR wrote: I wonder who the main shotcaller for IMT2016 was, and specially if they had none, what is the difference in communication between that team and TL2017 to make RO sort of implode Strong solo laners. A bot lane that was willing to move around/play for the team and sac laning phase if they had to for the team. A united sense of aggression and willingness to do things. RO right now has no pressure mid lane, no pressure bot and no pressure top. He's playing poorly but it's also a very shit situation for a jungler. I get the impression that everyone on TL is essentially playing for themselves and not their team. Their concept of "winning" is doing well individually instead of doing well as a team. As a side note that's why guys like Huhi are pretty good mid laners for international play. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On June 08 2017 06:48 Yorbon wrote: https://esports.yahoo.com/steve-arhancet-liquid-lcs-interview-180000089.html Interview with TLSteve on current situation (both roster and franchise) Currently watching, so I have no definitive opinion yet. Just watched this. And while everyone is talking about Goldenglue etc I thought the part where he talked about franchising and the NA LCS future was actually the most interesting. He seemed very content with the system Riot wants to implement and had a lot of praise for them. Travis was surprised about that after orgs and Riot had been butting heads last split. Steve also seemed to think that the 10 mio entry fee was rather modest and Riot could have asked way more. It probably helps Riot that Blizzard is doing a similar thing atm and orgs are less happy with them. Also good to hear that teams are apparently not only looking out for themselves but aim to grow the system as a whole. There will be quite a bit of revenue sharing between more and less successful orgs after all. It is very interesting that EU and NA will go with a completely different model and we will be able to directly compare things. I think it will lead to the financial gap becoming much bigger than it already is. People that were complaining about NA favouritism when it came to the most trivial shit will get something to actually complain about. If that translates to more success ingame remains to be seen ofc but I think we will see even more players wanting to go to NA. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On June 08 2017 20:39 Numy wrote: I get the impression that everyone on TL is essentially playing for themselves and not their team. Their concept of "winning" is doing well individually instead of doing well as a team. As a side note that's why guys like Huhi are pretty good mid laners for international play. Indeed and I believe this attitude is personified and reinforced by Piglet since the start. I felt this since the very first Rebirth videos showed him not wanting to talk to Fenix because he thought he was beneath him, the world champion. You would think TL made it a priority to stomp this out but from the latest Piglet interview it becomes obvious that this "me>you" attitude is alive and well after years. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On June 09 2017 00:11 JimmiC wrote: Too me the issue is piglet doesn't have the carry potential to make it worth his import slot, and his attitude. They have moved a lot of other pieces around to try to accommodate him and its not working. I disagree. I see an arrogant tone from him in this interview, but whenever they interview one of his teammates, they say he's a really nice guy. I might have agreed with Piglet being part of the problem last split, especially at the start with the whole Lethality meta thing going on, but this split Piglet is the only cog that seems to actually be working on TL. I don't think he's perfect, but I do think he's literally the last person you should be blaming for TL's current condition. Biggest culprit in TL, to me, is Steve. TL makes this big announcement about new business partners who brought with them the kind of money TL needed to afford its dream roster... and ends up with a roster downgrade instead (Reignover instead of Moon + Dardoch was considered an upgrade at the time, but nowhere near enough to compensate the downgrade from Fenix to goldenglue). Even then, TL ends up playing a lot worse than you'd expect from the skill of its players, due to poor in-game synergy and overall decisionmaking- this is down to poor coaching and analysts, which are not the fault of any of TL's players, it's a management fault. Heck, TL might not even be in the LCS were it not for the coincidence that Doublelift was conveniently available just when they needed him. Piglet's interview is fairly nasty, and even makes me question if he's a Piglet from an alternate timeline where he wasn't an atrocious midlaner last split, but when you're inside a trainwreck in slow motion, tempers are bound to flare up. I don't think he pulled his weight last split, but he seems to be the only one in the team who IS pulling his weight in this one. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
On June 09 2017 06:10 Zato-1 wrote:I disagree. I see an arrogant tone from him in this interview, but whenever they interview one of his teammates, they say he's a really nice guy. Of course they say he's a nice guy in an interview. If they don't, odds are they're going to get booted off the team in short order. If Link were ever on the starting lineup for TL, he would probably write a 10,000 page treatise on everything wrong with Piglet's attitude after leaving. I'm actually really sad he never got to start, because I was looking forward to the potential there. Been saying it for a long time, Piglet has been the problem for ages. And it is rooted in management bending over backwards for him, while simultaneously being really awful decision makers on top of that. Of course the two of those are intrinsically linked, because if they weren't awful decision makers they probably would have never picked up Piglet in the first place. The cynic in me says they knew what they were getting and they picked him up because of his "star power" to attract fandom, and not because of talent. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On June 08 2017 23:28 Redox wrote: It is very interesting that EU and NA will go with a completely different model and we will be able to directly compare things. I think it will lead to the financial gap becoming much bigger than it already is. People that were complaining about NA favouritism when it came to the most trivial shit will get something to actually complain about. If that translates to more success ingame remains to be seen ofc but I think we will see even more players wanting to go to NA. Well took them long enough but seems the complaining has started. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/6g8532/ocelote_it_is_a_possibility_for_g2_to_move_to_na/ I do not see how G2 could just chose to move to NA LCS though. It is Riot's call after all who they take into the league and who not. | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
So I think EU LCS has to move to a geographical system much like in China if they want to make CS meaningful. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On June 09 2017 23:36 GrandInquisitor wrote: At the end of the day there just isn't a reason to be a fan of a lower-tier team in the Challenger Series. It's different in soccer, because you have local loyalties to your hometown club team. But what reason does anyone have to become a fan of a CS team? So I think EU LCS has to move to a geographical system much like in China if they want to make CS meaningful. I never really got why we want to try force the beauty of esports in that it transcends boundaries to then be tied back to boundaries in an old system. Rather sad to me. Lower tier clubs in EPL etc. also get support from outside of the country that don't give a shit about the actual location, why is this? Why are there so many dam Crystal Palace and Newcastle supporters in my region when none of them have ever been there? It's just lazy thinking that we need to somehow go back to this old system to make it "worthwhile" for the teams. Who's fault is it that league has massively overinflated salaries and costs? Surely the teams need to take some responsibility for it instead of crying/demanding riot fixes their poor business practices for them. It's a strange world where companies are asking for direct handouts and communism with people in the west cheering it on as the best solution. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On June 09 2017 23:40 Numy wrote: I never really got why we want to try force the beauty of esports in that it transcends boundaries to then be tied back to boundaries in an old system. Rather sad to me. Lower tier clubs in EPL etc. also get support from outside of the country that don't give a shit about the actual location, why is this? Why are there so many dam Crystal Palace and Newcastle supporters in my region when none of them have ever been there? It's just lazy thinking that we need to somehow go back to this old system to make it "worthwhile" for the teams. Who's fault is it that league has massively overinflated salaries and costs? Surely the teams need to take some responsibility for it instead of crying/demanding riot fixes their poor business practices for them. It's a strange world where companies are asking for direct handouts and communism with people in the west cheering it on as the best solution. Yes. The franchise model is a dinosaur from 1920s baseball that is bad for leagues and bad for fans long-term. Riot and Blizzard trying to go down that path is simply as marketing to mainstream sports teams and investors for $$, but bjergson's salary being $150k or $500k does not improve the quality of his play substantially. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
In any case it will lead to a big financial disparity between NA LCS and the other leagues. I would not be surprised if it will end in all the best players (including Faker etc) wanting to go there and NA LCS becoming THE LoL league. The "3 residents" rule will prevent NA LCS teams from becoming the best teams though, but then again who knows if that rule stays forever. | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
Interesting interview with a couple of owners including G2's Ocelote with an outside perspective. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
Revenue sharing, streaming rights, merchandising etc. all don't actually require franchising to happen anyway. I believe every team in the EPL signs into a collection that gives them some of these benefits each season. It's also a case of more money for business doesn't equate to higher levels of competition. We can see that already when teams like GAM can go toe to toe with the best NA has to offer and EU as a whole being less funded still competing better on average. Does it benefit the players? Currently players, especially local skilled players have an insane amount of power in the scene. The supply is low and demand is high. Teams have to be competitive so they have to have these kinds of players. If they no longer required to be competitive that takes away a huge chunk of power from them. So the players now lose out. Which is partly why a union is so important. We don't know how the union will play out in the long run so it's tough to say. So at the end of the day who benefits the most out of it? Personally am the view that mediocrity is what gets the most out of the deal. My belief is that Ocelote is just trying to get a more beneficial sharing split out of Riot EU while not having that big a case to really make here. ps: I always find it interesting how these owners claim they operate at losses in league while other gaming scenes generate way more profit for them. | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
On June 10 2017 00:55 Numy wrote: ps: I always find it interesting how these owners claim they operate at losses in league while other gaming scenes generate way more profit for them. It's cause it's a way lower investment in other scenes + avenues for revenue. Skins in CSGO are super popular. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On June 10 2017 00:55 Numy wrote: Franchising being better for business isn't necessarily a given, especially at the top end. Teams like G2/Fnatic/TSM/C9 may not really get any actual benefit from franchising as they are in a position that there is never a risk to them. And yet they (well the NA teams) were asking for it and ready to pay 10 mio to get it. It is not so much Riot that needs franchising to happen. Of course investor money will also play a big role with the established teams. Weldon in his AMA was also predicting salaries in NA to rise and EU becoming jelous soon. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
On June 10 2017 01:18 Redox wrote: And yet they (well the NA teams) were asking for it and ready to pay 10 mio to get it. It is not so much Riot that needs franchising to happen. Of course investor money will also play a big role with the established teams. Weldon in his AMA was also predicting salaries in NA to rise and EU becoming jelous soon. Not to mention that in franchising, the teams get a cut of that $300m that Riot got from MLB over the next 6 years. In the recently linked video, Reginald said that getting sponsors was difficult at times for him because relegation existed. If the owner of the team that has never fared worse than 2nd in LCS/since S2 is getting people tip toeing about investing, that shows how big a deterrent it was. NA salaries will rise as they're currently underpaid for their reach, but the economics of the scene in their current state makes it prohibitive to spend more. I don't know how EU is going to get around this hump unless more futball teams hop into the scene. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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