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On January 07 2016 18:01 Fildun wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2016 11:39 Zato-1 wrote:On January 07 2016 07:55 NotMeEver wrote:On January 02 2016 01:42 Zato-1 wrote:On January 02 2016 01:23 Numy wrote:On January 02 2016 01:17 Zato-1 wrote:On January 01 2016 21:40 Prog wrote:
Sister teams are just terrible from a spectator point of view. You can't create hype around Samsung 1 vs Samsung 2. It just does not make for a good story. And esports as a business is first and foremost entertainment, so the story is more important than anything else. On January 02 2016 00:15 Prog wrote:
For bulding a story of two teams playing against each other you generally want to target at least three different audiences: Fans of team 1, fans of team 2 and neutral spectators. Whenever you have two sister teams play each other, you naturally get a lot of overlap between the first 2 target audiences. Moreover, you also create a situation in which neutral specators might think that nothing is on the line, because the team wins anyway. Sure, if you are heavily invested into the league scene you see differences that give you a sense that they are not the same team. However, if you are not that involved, you likely won't be pulled into viewing the event if it is advertised as "Samsung 1 vs Samsung 2". I believe that OGN/Riot thinks about storylines with the casual viewer in mind. Most people on this site would watch the games regardless what the teams are called, because we know the players and we love to watch the game. But there are lots of people for whom it makes a difference if they perceive a game as important. It is OGN's/Riot's job to make the games feel important. And it is easier to do so if both teams are not obvious sister teams.
On a side note: It is not an accident that two sister teams cannot both get into the highest league in traditional sports (you find something very similar to sister teams in football (soccer) everywhere in europe). I agree, I could not care less about Samsung White vs. Samsung Blue in 2014 and all the storylines mentioned just sounded to me like (failed) desperate attempts to keep the matchup interesting. Do you watch league for quality games or for personalities and storylines? Sounds to me like you like the latter hence why you have such a reaction. I find it hard to believe that anyone that likes watching league gameplay wouldn't have cared about the White vs Blue games. Implying that you can either watch quality Korean games or shitty NA/EU games with personalities and storylines? As far as I'm concerned, NA and EU LCS are also quality games, just not as high quality as KR but more than making up for it with recognizable brands, personalities and storylines. So yes, as a viewer of NA and sometimes EU, Samsung White and Samsung Blue were basically interchangeable to me. So, what you're saying is you 1. Don't watch Korean LOL, and, thus, had no previous experience watching true sister teams in LOL; and 2. Largely only cared for manufactured storylines? Sorry if I don't quite rate your input on sister teams, quality of games, match-fixing, etc. Congratulations, you just won the most passive-aggressive post of the week award! Quite ironic, don't you think? Anyway that wasn't even close to a passive aggressive post plus he's right. If you don't want to educate yourself about the topic at hand, we're not gonna care much for your opinion.
It's fine if you think my opinion isn't valuable. My problem was with NotMeEver's scornfully dismissive tone. Besides, not watching the Korean scene doesn't make my arguments invalid; even if I'm not seeing the benefits of sister teams, I can still argue as to what their costs are.
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On January 08 2016 01:00 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2016 18:01 Fildun wrote:On January 07 2016 11:39 Zato-1 wrote:On January 07 2016 07:55 NotMeEver wrote:On January 02 2016 01:42 Zato-1 wrote:On January 02 2016 01:23 Numy wrote:On January 02 2016 01:17 Zato-1 wrote:On January 01 2016 21:40 Prog wrote:
Sister teams are just terrible from a spectator point of view. You can't create hype around Samsung 1 vs Samsung 2. It just does not make for a good story. And esports as a business is first and foremost entertainment, so the story is more important than anything else. On January 02 2016 00:15 Prog wrote:
For bulding a story of two teams playing against each other you generally want to target at least three different audiences: Fans of team 1, fans of team 2 and neutral spectators. Whenever you have two sister teams play each other, you naturally get a lot of overlap between the first 2 target audiences. Moreover, you also create a situation in which neutral specators might think that nothing is on the line, because the team wins anyway. Sure, if you are heavily invested into the league scene you see differences that give you a sense that they are not the same team. However, if you are not that involved, you likely won't be pulled into viewing the event if it is advertised as "Samsung 1 vs Samsung 2". I believe that OGN/Riot thinks about storylines with the casual viewer in mind. Most people on this site would watch the games regardless what the teams are called, because we know the players and we love to watch the game. But there are lots of people for whom it makes a difference if they perceive a game as important. It is OGN's/Riot's job to make the games feel important. And it is easier to do so if both teams are not obvious sister teams.
On a side note: It is not an accident that two sister teams cannot both get into the highest league in traditional sports (you find something very similar to sister teams in football (soccer) everywhere in europe). I agree, I could not care less about Samsung White vs. Samsung Blue in 2014 and all the storylines mentioned just sounded to me like (failed) desperate attempts to keep the matchup interesting. Do you watch league for quality games or for personalities and storylines? Sounds to me like you like the latter hence why you have such a reaction. I find it hard to believe that anyone that likes watching league gameplay wouldn't have cared about the White vs Blue games. Implying that you can either watch quality Korean games or shitty NA/EU games with personalities and storylines? As far as I'm concerned, NA and EU LCS are also quality games, just not as high quality as KR but more than making up for it with recognizable brands, personalities and storylines. So yes, as a viewer of NA and sometimes EU, Samsung White and Samsung Blue were basically interchangeable to me. So, what you're saying is you 1. Don't watch Korean LOL, and, thus, had no previous experience watching true sister teams in LOL; and 2. Largely only cared for manufactured storylines? Sorry if I don't quite rate your input on sister teams, quality of games, match-fixing, etc. Congratulations, you just won the most passive-aggressive post of the week award! Quite ironic, don't you think? Anyway that wasn't even close to a passive aggressive post plus he's right. If you don't want to educate yourself about the topic at hand, we're not gonna care much for your opinion. It's fine if you think my opinion isn't valuable. My problem was with NotMeEver's scornfully dismissive tone. Besides, not watching the Korean scene doesn't make my arguments invalid; even if I'm not seeing the benefits of sister teams, I can still argue as to what their costs are.
I really don't see that tone though.
Also your stance is basically intentionally looking at only one side of the argument, which isn't the greatest way to argue in my opinion.
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Locodoco seems out of the blue but I applaud Liquid for going to a 10 man roster. Allows for a lot of private practice recreating situations the team is struggling with. Grants a great deal of positional theorycrafting allowing the starting roster to focus more on honing their game instead of also trying to crack the meta constantly. Provides an easy and built in way to control player behavior(easy enough to take someone off the starting lineup). From personal experience, its a lot easier to maintain discipline and team focus with 10 than with 5(weight of the rule-abiding crowd sort of thing). This makes it easy to get the team focused on productivity and improvement. Not to mention the obvious benefits of having 5 more brains and the ability to cover for injuries and emergencies. This is NA moving in the right direction.
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EPT
