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On December 31 2015 22:12 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2015 22:08 nafta wrote:On December 31 2015 21:45 Zato-1 wrote:On December 31 2015 17:37 Numy wrote:
While I think 10 man rosters are good for teams I loathe the idea for the scene. Don't want even less players playing games. Just give us sister teams so we get to actually see these guys play. Really dislike how everyone is pushing this whole subs thing.
Also lukewarm about Loco head coach. Not sure I like 10-man rosters, but I do know that I like sister teams even less. Please don't bring match-fixing into my competitive LoL. I disagree with someone therefore he's an idiot Hey look, it's every nafta post ever
When your opinion is that fucking stupid it is hard to tell I am sorry.
You realize a lot of teams intentionally lose games at end of season to get better seeds right? How is that any different? This is like riot not adding voice chat because it can be "toxic". Chances are there is match fixing going on right now in most leagues but people just don't know about it and as long as it doesn't go out of control it is normal. What exactly stops especially some of those rich orgs that are throwing money to pay one of the better teams to throw a game at the end of the season? Same shit.
This is like thinking XWX's teammates didn't know he was boosting rofl.
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On December 31 2015 23:14 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2015 22:52 nafta wrote:On December 31 2015 22:12 Zato-1 wrote:On December 31 2015 22:08 nafta wrote:On December 31 2015 21:45 Zato-1 wrote:On December 31 2015 17:37 Numy wrote:
While I think 10 man rosters are good for teams I loathe the idea for the scene. Don't want even less players playing games. Just give us sister teams so we get to actually see these guys play. Really dislike how everyone is pushing this whole subs thing.
Also lukewarm about Loco head coach. Not sure I like 10-man rosters, but I do know that I like sister teams even less. Please don't bring match-fixing into my competitive LoL. I disagree with someone therefore he's an idiot Hey look, it's every nafta post ever When your opinion is that fucking stupid it is hard to tell I am sorry. You realize a lot of teams intentionally lose games at end of season to get better seeds right? How is that any different? This is like riot not adding voice chat because it can be "toxic". Chances are there is match fixing going on right now in most leagues but people just don't know about it and as long as it doesn't go out of control it is normal. What exactly stops especially some of those rich orgs that are throwing money to pay one of the better teams to throw a game at the end of the season? Same shit. This is like thinking XWX's teammates didn't know he was boosting rofl. Pretty sure if this happened and RIOT was aware there would be some big suspensions and and bans. Not sure why so many people make assumptions and treat them as fact. In more positive news. HYPE HYPE HYPE go team liquid!!!!
That is a pretty big if. Realistically unless you have actual spies on every team there is no fucking way to know. Riot isn't an actual all-seeing divine being.
You could also schedule matches in a way where teams would put themselves at risk by throwing games or have a better format but hey that is too logical.
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Let's be real: we knew Loco couldn't stay away for long. Glad to see he's back.
The 10 man roster is very important because I've come to the opinion (based on observation but not statistics) that solo queue is actively detrimental to improving skill at competitive LoL because it's a completely different skillset and requires completely different gamesense. By having 10 on the roster, you have the potential for endless scrims, mixing and matching strategies (i.e. one support doesn't like Thresh, the other mains him, can swap out if you want a Thresh comp), and don't have to rely on solo queue play to learn new heroes and practice mechanics. If TL doesn't use this to become the unquestioned #1 in NA by the Summer Split (this split might be rocky because of the transition), then they're doing something very, very wrong.
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On December 31 2015 22:52 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2015 22:12 Zato-1 wrote:On December 31 2015 22:08 nafta wrote:On December 31 2015 21:45 Zato-1 wrote:On December 31 2015 17:37 Numy wrote:
While I think 10 man rosters are good for teams I loathe the idea for the scene. Don't want even less players playing games. Just give us sister teams so we get to actually see these guys play. Really dislike how everyone is pushing this whole subs thing.
Also lukewarm about Loco head coach. Not sure I like 10-man rosters, but I do know that I like sister teams even less. Please don't bring match-fixing into my competitive LoL. I disagree with someone therefore he's an idiot Hey look, it's every nafta post ever When your opinion is that fucking stupid it is hard to tell I am sorry.
Yep, my opinions are pretty stupid. In fact, everyone's opinions are stupid, especially when they disagree with you.
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On January 01 2016 00:24 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2015 22:52 nafta wrote:On December 31 2015 22:12 Zato-1 wrote:On December 31 2015 22:08 nafta wrote:On December 31 2015 21:45 Zato-1 wrote:On December 31 2015 17:37 Numy wrote:
While I think 10 man rosters are good for teams I loathe the idea for the scene. Don't want even less players playing games. Just give us sister teams so we get to actually see these guys play. Really dislike how everyone is pushing this whole subs thing.
Also lukewarm about Loco head coach. Not sure I like 10-man rosters, but I do know that I like sister teams even less. Please don't bring match-fixing into my competitive LoL. I disagree with someone therefore he's an idiot Hey look, it's every nafta post ever When your opinion is that fucking stupid it is hard to tell I am sorry. Yep, my opinions are pretty stupid. In fact, everyone's opinions are stupid, especially when they disagree with you.
Clearly that is why I call everyone stupid not just a select few xD
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On January 01 2016 00:21 deth2munkies wrote:
Let's be real: we knew Loco couldn't stay away for long. Glad to see he's back.
The 10 man roster is very important because I've come to the opinion (based on observation but not statistics) that solo queue is actively detrimental to improving skill at competitive LoL because it's a completely different skillset and requires completely different gamesense. By having 10 on the roster, you have the potential for endless scrims, mixing and matching strategies (i.e. one support doesn't like Thresh, the other mains him, can swap out if you want a Thresh comp), and don't have to rely on solo queue play to learn new heroes and practice mechanics. If TL doesn't use this to become the unquestioned #1 in NA by the Summer Split (this split might be rocky because of the transition), then they're doing something very, very wrong.
My personal view is that it's unlikely that a 10-man roster will allow for such strategic diversity within the lineups. At best, it allows for flexibility between top and sup or as a way to transition new players into the team/old players out of the team.
What I really think is the advantage is access to scrims. If the rumors of TLA being on-par with LCS teams is true (or at least, lower half LCS teams) we have incredible potential to train. Strategies can actually be tested without revealing information to other teams and if you want to train against a very specific composition or matchup you have the ability to do that. If used right it could very well lead liquid to worlds. We'll just have to trust in Locodoco that he makes the best use of this.
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On December 31 2015 19:23 Undead1993 wrote:LOL locodoco really? oh yeah this will be great locofuckingdoco as the headcoach right, what a great decision! + Show Spoiler +
In all seriousness, outside of importing Korean coaches. I can't imagine too many people who'd be even remotely qualified to coach (inb4 lastshadow).
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
Yes thank you riot for removing sister teams, ensuring that no team fixes matches
![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/meUVL/5ab7028d74.png)
![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/meUWU/1ecfda8689.png)
Ever, there has never been a single match intentionally thrown in S5. Save mid is a legitimate strat that iG prepared for LGD
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On January 01 2016 00:41 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2016 00:21 deth2munkies wrote:
Let's be real: we knew Loco couldn't stay away for long. Glad to see he's back.
The 10 man roster is very important because I've come to the opinion (based on observation but not statistics) that solo queue is actively detrimental to improving skill at competitive LoL because it's a completely different skillset and requires completely different gamesense. By having 10 on the roster, you have the potential for endless scrims, mixing and matching strategies (i.e. one support doesn't like Thresh, the other mains him, can swap out if you want a Thresh comp), and don't have to rely on solo queue play to learn new heroes and practice mechanics. If TL doesn't use this to become the unquestioned #1 in NA by the Summer Split (this split might be rocky because of the transition), then they're doing something very, very wrong. My personal view is that it's unlikely that a 10-man roster will allow for such strategic diversity within the lineups. At best, it allows for flexibility between top and sup or as a way to transition new players into the team/old players out of the team. What I really think is the advantage is access to scrims. If the rumors of TLA being on-par with LCS teams is true (or at least, lower half LCS teams) we have incredible potential to train. Strategies can actually be tested without revealing information to other teams and if you want to train against a very specific composition or matchup you have the ability to do that. If used right it could very well lead liquid to worlds. We'll just have to trust in Locodoco that he makes the best use of this.
are we assuming that the 10 man roster is TL + TLA here? because if so I'm a bit confused as to why a 10 man roster would be needed then. couldn't TLA/TL just scrim as normal even without combining the rosters? I feel like this is just to have the option of switching in members since they have to declare subs (most likely because the jg/top/sup are spots that TLA members can seriously fight for).
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On January 01 2016 01:10 dsyxelic wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2016 00:41 Plexa wrote:On January 01 2016 00:21 deth2munkies wrote:
Let's be real: we knew Loco couldn't stay away for long. Glad to see he's back.
The 10 man roster is very important because I've come to the opinion (based on observation but not statistics) that solo queue is actively detrimental to improving skill at competitive LoL because it's a completely different skillset and requires completely different gamesense. By having 10 on the roster, you have the potential for endless scrims, mixing and matching strategies (i.e. one support doesn't like Thresh, the other mains him, can swap out if you want a Thresh comp), and don't have to rely on solo queue play to learn new heroes and practice mechanics. If TL doesn't use this to become the unquestioned #1 in NA by the Summer Split (this split might be rocky because of the transition), then they're doing something very, very wrong. My personal view is that it's unlikely that a 10-man roster will allow for such strategic diversity within the lineups. At best, it allows for flexibility between top and sup or as a way to transition new players into the team/old players out of the team. What I really think is the advantage is access to scrims. If the rumors of TLA being on-par with LCS teams is true (or at least, lower half LCS teams) we have incredible potential to train. Strategies can actually be tested without revealing information to other teams and if you want to train against a very specific composition or matchup you have the ability to do that. If used right it could very well lead liquid to worlds. We'll just have to trust in Locodoco that he makes the best use of this. are we assuming that the 10 man roster is TL + TLA here? because if so I'm a bit confused as to why a 10 man roster would be needed then. couldn't TLA/TL just scrim as normal even without combining the rosters? I feel like this is just to have the option of switching in members since they have to declare subs (most likely because the jg/top/sup are spots that TLA members can seriously fight for).
Tfw I was like "fuck, there is like third guy to use the Zilean icon, oh wait, it's the krdandaman's alt." :p
Zig has told me that he wasn't chosen to be a toplaner for TL, because he slumped during the tryout process, so he couldn't make it and Dardoch is simply better than every other NA jungler right now.
And honestly, I'd say that Smoothie might be in the air as well, Piglet is playing under no pressure though again, no way anyone is going to start Fabby over him, lol. Fenix/Youngbin situation is same.
I guess, they can just scrim a lot during Spring and then by the time summer comes, Lourlo/IWD/Smoothie all can easily be demoted to the B-team, which is likely to make LCS/be the top-tier CS team by that time.
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nail in the coffin for supporting TL, most unlikable group ever. Jumping ship to echo fox pce
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On January 01 2016 02:21 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2015 23:22 nafta wrote:On December 31 2015 23:14 JimmiC wrote:On December 31 2015 22:52 nafta wrote:On December 31 2015 22:12 Zato-1 wrote:On December 31 2015 22:08 nafta wrote:On December 31 2015 21:45 Zato-1 wrote:On December 31 2015 17:37 Numy wrote:
While I think 10 man rosters are good for teams I loathe the idea for the scene. Don't want even less players playing games. Just give us sister teams so we get to actually see these guys play. Really dislike how everyone is pushing this whole subs thing.
Also lukewarm about Loco head coach. Not sure I like 10-man rosters, but I do know that I like sister teams even less. Please don't bring match-fixing into my competitive LoL. I disagree with someone therefore he's an idiot Hey look, it's every nafta post ever When your opinion is that fucking stupid it is hard to tell I am sorry. You realize a lot of teams intentionally lose games at end of season to get better seeds right? How is that any different? This is like riot not adding voice chat because it can be "toxic". Chances are there is match fixing going on right now in most leagues but people just don't know about it and as long as it doesn't go out of control it is normal. What exactly stops especially some of those rich orgs that are throwing money to pay one of the better teams to throw a game at the end of the season? Same shit. This is like thinking XWX's teammates didn't know he was boosting rofl. Pretty sure if this happened and RIOT was aware there would be some big suspensions and and bans. Not sure why so many people make assumptions and treat them as fact. In more positive news. HYPE HYPE HYPE go team liquid!!!! That is a pretty big if. Realistically unless you have actual spies on every team there is no fucking way to know. Riot isn't an actual all-seeing divine being. You could also schedule matches in a way where teams would put themselves at risk by throwing games or have a better format but hey that is too logical. not nearly as big of a if as your entire statement that I responded to which based purely on assumption, you thinking you're smarter than everyone and 0 facts.
lol sure friend
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On January 01 2016 01:53 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2016 01:10 dsyxelic wrote:On January 01 2016 00:41 Plexa wrote:On January 01 2016 00:21 deth2munkies wrote:
Let's be real: we knew Loco couldn't stay away for long. Glad to see he's back.
The 10 man roster is very important because I've come to the opinion (based on observation but not statistics) that solo queue is actively detrimental to improving skill at competitive LoL because it's a completely different skillset and requires completely different gamesense. By having 10 on the roster, you have the potential for endless scrims, mixing and matching strategies (i.e. one support doesn't like Thresh, the other mains him, can swap out if you want a Thresh comp), and don't have to rely on solo queue play to learn new heroes and practice mechanics. If TL doesn't use this to become the unquestioned #1 in NA by the Summer Split (this split might be rocky because of the transition), then they're doing something very, very wrong. My personal view is that it's unlikely that a 10-man roster will allow for such strategic diversity within the lineups. At best, it allows for flexibility between top and sup or as a way to transition new players into the team/old players out of the team. What I really think is the advantage is access to scrims. If the rumors of TLA being on-par with LCS teams is true (or at least, lower half LCS teams) we have incredible potential to train. Strategies can actually be tested without revealing information to other teams and if you want to train against a very specific composition or matchup you have the ability to do that. If used right it could very well lead liquid to worlds. We'll just have to trust in Locodoco that he makes the best use of this. are we assuming that the 10 man roster is TL + TLA here? because if so I'm a bit confused as to why a 10 man roster would be needed then. couldn't TLA/TL just scrim as normal even without combining the rosters? I feel like this is just to have the option of switching in members since they have to declare subs (most likely because the jg/top/sup are spots that TLA members can seriously fight for). Tfw I was like "fuck, there is like third guy to use the Zilean icon, oh wait, it's the krdandaman's alt." :p Zig has told me that he wasn't chosen to be a toplaner for TL, because he slumped during the tryout process, so he couldn't make it and Dardoch is simply better than every other NA jungler right now. And honestly, I'd say that Smoothie might be in the air as well, Piglet is playing under no pressure though again, no way anyone is going to start Fabby over him, lol. Fenix/Youngbin situation is same. I guess, they can just scrim a lot during Spring and then by the time summer comes, Lourlo/IWD/Smoothie all can easily be demoted to the B-team, which is likely to make LCS/be the top-tier CS team by that time.
eventually the 1 or 2 other guys will hop off the zilean
tho only other one I remember is a guy who gets instabanned every time lel
yeah that was my thought process too- fabby/youngbin can't really compete for those spots but the others are definitely up in the air if that's what TL's going for. im reaally hoping dardoch makes the main roster :x when you actually have na jungle talent you jump on that asap
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United States47024 Posts
On December 31 2015 22:27 Zato-1 wrote:
You're saying it hasn't happened before, therefore it cannot happen ever? Yeah no. You're putting the incentive there, and expecting orgs to take the high ground and avoid the temptation every single time. And when Sister Team B is fighting for 9th place with another team, trying to avoid auto-relegation, and in one of the last games of the season it gets a win vs. Sister Team A, which didn't need the win because it was gonna finish 4th or 5th anyway? It won't look suspicious at all, I'm sure.
Sister teams doesn't guarantee matchfixing, but it definitely opens the door to it. I'd rather keep that door closed.
I think it's incredibly shortsighted to let the possibility of a mishap that hasn't happened yet outweigh all of the potential good that sister teams can bring and has already provably brought to competitive LoL in the time where it was allowed.
Is the possibility of matchfixing something we should outright ignore when discussing sister teams? Of course not. Is it something that is so worrisome that it trumps all other potential benefits of such a system? Also no. That's equally ridiculous.
On January 01 2016 00:41 Plexa wrote:
My personal view is that it's unlikely that a 10-man roster will allow for such strategic diversity within the lineups. At best, it allows for flexibility between top and sup or as a way to transition new players into the team/old players out of the team.
This was the theory when Korea got big on subs a few seasons ago.
In practice, what actually happened was that any "trump card"/diversity gained from having a sub just didn't end up outweighing the better teamplay of having a team that always plays the same 5 players. The teams that regularly used their subs didn't really show better overall performance than those that stuck to consistent lineups, and so that phase kind of died out.
The scrimming benefit is much more relevant.
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Looking simply at playstyle, I think Youngbin in TL main could work, he's generally played a low priority role on TLA which could fit a team with Piglet and a carry top like Lourlo (and a carry jungler) better than Fenix, who eats a lot of resources. But outside of the games versus Misfits in the Summer Qualifier, I don't think I've ever seen Youngbin play an LCS caliber mid, so I have no idea how he would stand in lane against better competition.
Which isn't to say I think Youngbin is better than Fenix, just that he seems to fit more stylistically to me.
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On January 01 2016 03:28 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2015 22:27 Zato-1 wrote:
You're saying it hasn't happened before, therefore it cannot happen ever? Yeah no. You're putting the incentive there, and expecting orgs to take the high ground and avoid the temptation every single time. And when Sister Team B is fighting for 9th place with another team, trying to avoid auto-relegation, and in one of the last games of the season it gets a win vs. Sister Team A, which didn't need the win because it was gonna finish 4th or 5th anyway? It won't look suspicious at all, I'm sure.
Sister teams doesn't guarantee matchfixing, but it definitely opens the door to it. I'd rather keep that door closed. I think it's incredibly shortsighted to let the possibility of a mishap that hasn't happened yet outweigh all of the potential good that sister teams can bring and has already provably brought to competitive LoL in the time where it was allowed. Is the possibility of matchfixing something we should outright ignore when discussing sister teams? Of course not. Is it something that is so worrisome that it trumps all other potential benefits of such a system? Also no. That's equally ridiculous.
First: Thank you for posting a polite, well-reasoned answer to my post. They're few and far between on the internet.
Second: I'm fairly ignorant when it comes to the Korean and Chinese scenes, so I can't very well gauge how much good sister teams have really done. I do think a big match-fixing scandal could be pretty disastrous for professional LoL, and even perceived match-fixing where there is none can be pretty harmful, so I put a lot of weight on reducing the likelihood of match-fixing as much as possible, ideally close to zero. As LoL gets bigger and there's more money in the scene and teams are playing for ever-higher stakes, the temptation for match-fixing would grow commensurately.
So yeah. It may be that I'm only seeing the potential costs of sister teams while being blind to the benefits, but I can only make an opinion based on what I do know.
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On January 01 2016 05:15 JimmiC wrote:
As for riot. They have a huge motivation to stop any of it. Draftkings for one is moving into esports along with a lot of other betting sites. Without integrity you can't have betting and as the $$$ comes so will mass punishments meaning if people match fix the federal government will get involved and prison will happen.
This is probably a little too easy...
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EPT
