I have played a lot of nasus earier on in the preseason and honestly, with all sustain in the defense tree there's really only a couple select champs that can deny stacks on their own. Most of the time I only had to give up ~15 creeps and just grind out stacks until I hit 100-150 and then go to town on them whenever they get near a creep. Most of them don't realize you can actually kill them and play very overextended.

The easiest way to shut down a nasus is just tower camping him with your jungler. Build up a wave, push it in and dive his ass. Repeat that 3 times and the game is over for him.
Although that's easier said than done and I had a couple of games they failed the dive in and gave me a double.

Part of why I stopped playing him is that he has no redeeming factor to really carry your team if the enemy has a good draft. Champs like brand, lulu or janna make you 100% useless as anything else than a damage sponge. He's a really good counterpick though, if you happen to be last pick top or something.

Alaric

France45622 Posts

January 01 2016 23:09 GMT

#366

Anyone with Graves tips to spare? In general, but I guess laning would be a good start. I'm doing garbage with him since the changes, even in lane where I used to be somewhat decent.

Do you just farm normally or have patterns, for example focus the minions on the edges so they always die first and you don't have to deal with a focused minion behind a full health one?

Do you walk up to the enemy to try and auto them, use E to get in range rather than partially reload, wait for an initiation from your support and keep your distance otherwise?

I also find the ult annoying because the knock-back means you can't use it at the start of the teamfight to help burst people down, and in trades if you ever misread your damage you can't auto, or Flash-auto, to finish people off when they survive it with 50 HP.
Do you time your abilities so you cast them during your reloading, or do you use them normally and run to the enemy during the reload?

That short range makes it so annoying to respond to harass or to try and posture aggressively. Do you depend on your support to make shit happen for you?

Osmoses

Sweden5302 Posts

January 02 2016 02:44 GMT

#367

I've tried playing him lately and... I'm with qtpie. He is just so bad after laning phase that it doesn't matter how well you do in lane. Lane you can get through easy with just instaclear or allins with the right supp but the fact that you got short range and can't shoot through people makes him garbage in late. It's like every minion, jungle creep and enemy tanks are yasuo wind walls. Not worth the pick.

Nos-

Canada12016 Posts

January 02 2016 21:12 GMT

#368

There's one dude at master/challenger that plays graves in solo lanes called Aerodactyl, dumpsters renekton for some reason

Slusher

United States19143 Posts

January 02 2016 21:20 GMT

#369

Do you guys think he's good if you revert the nerfs? I feel like his problems are unrelated, which is funny in hindsight. I think he was really only considered bonkers because of how op warlords worked with his kit.

25/25 q damage
5 movespeed

JimmiC

Canada22817 Posts

January 02 2016 21:59 GMT

#370

--- Nuked ---

nafta

Bulgaria18893 Posts

January 02 2016 22:03 GMT

#371

You can't balance morde he is either broken or garbage

Dunno graves might not be a top tier pick but as I have said like 10 times in threads like this already just watch replays of a guy called "jungle graves" on euw if you wanna see how to win games as him

Alaric

France45622 Posts

January 02 2016 22:21 GMT

#372

But doesn't he play Graves in the jungle? He used to be my go-to pick for playing AD and he has almost nothing to do with how he was before, so I'm not interested in playing him jungle either, I've got picks for that.

nafta

Bulgaria18893 Posts

January 02 2016 22:40 GMT

#373

Well he just kinda sucks at laning bot. When a champion gets changed this much you just move on to playing him the better way. Personally thought he was shit at ad even before the nerfs but a lot of people just lack the common sense to abuse his range properly so they thought he was op.

Fildun

Netherlands4122 Posts

January 02 2016 22:42 GMT

#374

On January 03 2016 07:21 Alaric wrote:
But doesn't he play Graves in the jungle? He used to be my go-to pick for playing AD and he has almost nothing to do with how he was before, so I'm not interested in playing him jungle either, I've got picks for that.

I think you just gotta find a new ADC for your go-to pick man. He isn't really like what he was before so it's gonna be learning a new champ either way, might as well pick a good one (for botlane).

Slusher

United States19143 Posts

January 02 2016 22:57 GMT

#375

On January 03 2016 07:40 nafta wrote:
Well he just kinda sucks at laning bot. When a champion gets changed this much you just move on to playing him the better way. Personally thought he was shit at ad even before the nerfs but a lot of people just lack the common sense to abuse his range properly so they thought he was op.

I mean adc had a stupid smount of sustain on the patch he was "op". I agree he was highly over valued but i don't know if pushing him out of lane with old q cost + launch warlords was all yhat easy unless you cheesed him with like Draven + nami (which people started doing)

In any case i think the 40% cdr + 50%+ crit lategame staxking armor with you e and healing every crit was what made him strong at lesst when i played him, so i still dtandby being the best lategame warlords abuser from adc role being the issue.

That said i agree with above poster Lucian is a lot closer to old graves than graves is not sure why you feel attached to him.

Alaric

France45622 Posts

January 02 2016 22:59 GMT

#376

That's the thing though, I dunno what would suit my laning ways better. I could stay on Ashe but something without mobility is suicidal with my level of stutter-stepping and mechanics in general, and I dislike Lucian on principle (since because he's "the guy who casts spells" he's the reason Graves was left in the dust and changed so many times, and in the end reworked, but he doesn't have the same feel at all when you play).

What I liked about Graves was the burst, and the way you can turn on people if you've got enough farm, so as long as I didn't farm like shit and my support made some space for me, I could play around my cooldowns, which is something I'm more used to do.
And post-6 if you're already ahead you can, if not kill people, at least be unopposed because of the risk you just 100-0 someone.
What I meant about the "feel" is that Q and R had a very "visceral" feel when you cast them, with satisfying sounds and the burst of damage and all (bit like Mundo cleavers or Pantheon's Q), Lucian's animations don't do that at all to me (on top of disliking him anyway), but I'm not sure there's any marksman who foots that bill anymore. Maybe Corki? But I'm really bad at him, from whenever I tried to play him.

Maybe I'll move to Caitlyn. She does better damage now so even if I don't win the laning phase I won't be as much of a dead weight.

nafta

Bulgaria18893 Posts

January 02 2016 23:00 GMT

#377

Mf was a lot more difficult to handle in lane actually because her double up procd warlord if you kill the first target. Well with thunderlords+precision you actually do a lot of dmg and can straight up one shot people which before you couldn't really do at all. Atk speed is kinda useless on him too.

There is this champion called miss fortune she is pretty good and very easy to play. You could just play corki/tristana if you need an escape so much.

Nah caitlyn is shit.

Fildun

Netherlands4122 Posts

January 02 2016 23:02 GMT

#378

On January 03 2016 07:59 Alaric wrote:
That's the thing though, I dunno what would suit my laning ways better. I could stay on Ashe but something without mobility is suicidal with my level of stutter-stepping and mechanics in general, and I dislike Lucian on principle (since because he's "the guy who casts spells" he's the reason Graves was left in the dust and changed so many times, and in the end reworked, but he doesn't have the same feel at all when you play).
Maybe I'll move to Caitlyn. She does better damage now so even if I don't win the laning phase I won't be as much of a dead weight.

Tristana is pretty easy to play, works a bit like graves with the ult and as long as you don't suicide jump you're always doing something on her.
MF is pretty broken ATM, her ult and Q deal retarded amounts of damage.
Caitlyn seems like a good pick right now as well, can't really go that wrong with her.

Alaric

France45622 Posts

January 02 2016 23:10 GMT

#379

I disliked Tristana because she's all autos in lane, and her range get impactful till level 10 or so.
It feels a bit like playing, say, laning against an oppressive anti-melee (for example Swain or Nidalee) as Wukong or as Olaf. Olaf has Q so you can still farm, apply some damage then call for a gank, etc. while Wukong has to get close and gets punished (not all that true since he hurts, but I mean in terms of kits and "reach").

With Tristana I couldn't deal with people walking and harassing me when I last hit 'cause they have the lead if I try and trade back, and if I E them they can walk back usually. It also relies on autos a lot more.
With Graves, Ezreal, Sivir, etc. I could retaliate with auto+spell to make up for the health lost, or I could use the spells outranging my autos to harass/posture aggressively.

Sure with Caitlyn I'll still rely mostly on my autos later in the game, but having a long range and her Q to smooth the laning phase and better deal with people aggro-ing me, getting a health lead and then pressuring me till the next recall, does a lot.
Otherwise I just played Ashe because long range, Volley gets on a decent cd quickly enough, and even if I got shat on I could provide some utility.

Can't pick that with Rengar open though.

IMoperator

4476 Posts

January 02 2016 23:17 GMT

#380

Cait still has the same weakness she's always had; her midgame is shit. Until you get IE/zeal item you're completely useless, and even then, if the enemy has any kind of armor your autos are gonna do 0 damage. The only adc's i think are good atm are lucian, mf and trist.