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[Patch 5.22] League of Legends General Discussion - Page 16

Forum Index > LoL General
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If you've played around on the new patch and have some secret TL-op builds we should try out, post about them here! http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-strategy/498168-patch-522-what-is-marksman-gameplay-discussion
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-17 22:12:26
November 17 2015 22:08 GMT
#301
--- Nuked ---
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
November 18 2015 01:21 GMT
#302
I tried rageblade -> runaans lucian.

Sadly the rageblade stacks didn't go up 3 at a time, and while the onhit damage from rageblade hit the extra targets, it didn't seem to splash properly
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-18 14:12:02
November 18 2015 13:35 GMT
#303
encouraged by people saying mundo is good i picked him to jungle 1st run is rough but after buy your clear speed and sustain is super good, unfortunately enemy team had vayne and at any point of the game she killed me in literally 3seconds (to make things worse their mid was malz) i just dont see how 12% max true dmg was a good design choice there was nothing i could do at any point in the game even with fed red smite mundo, guess i will just stick to building dmg on champions and hope i can 1shot people rather then tank them
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
November 18 2015 14:18 GMT
#304
Eh, problem with vayne isn't the damage as much as the mobility. The other ADCs I can handle somewhat as a tank/bruiser, but kalista and vayne? Forget it, not even worth trying.

Actually the problem with both Kalista and Vayne is both the damage and the mobility. They should have to pay some kind of price for that ridiculous mobility, but damage clearly isn't it.
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
Nos-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada12016 Posts
November 18 2015 14:24 GMT
#305
handcannon + shiv might just be a little too good together for someone like vayne right now
Bronze player stuck in platinum
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-18 14:45:31
November 18 2015 14:28 GMT
#306
funny fact just checked match history and she actually never built last whisper, didnt look like she needed it considering i never felt so squishy on 4k hp 300 armor mundo(she had the infamous shiv,firecannon tho)
im fine with her mobility(not kalista fuck that champion and person who thought dash every auto is a good idea) but the dmg is excessive and has 0 counterplay theres nothing i can build to survive more than few hits only way is one shot her which is super hard and relays on your team having specific champions, the fact now u cant reveal her with trinket makes it even more frustrating
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-18 15:02:18
November 18 2015 14:57 GMT
#307
Vayne has no reach outside of her aa range, no waveclear and her steroids only work on units, so she's super strong in a fight but can't push, take towers quickly, or siege well. She's also supposed to be vulnerable in lane to champions who can either outtrade her (pre-work Graves, Corki, Lucian with frontloaded burst) or poke her out (Caitlyn).

Kalista... well her dps is supposed to be weak I guess? No steroid, so same she doesn't take towers fast, and her autos deal reduced damage. Her passive also makes her lose dps past some point I think?

Isn't she technically nerfed atm because BotRK has been made worse (both nerfed itself, and weaker compared to its competition) while Hurricane loses AS, weakening the AS/on-hit synergy (for Rend in her case) and making her rely more on crit when hers deal less damage than other marksmen?

One champ that doesn't really have a weakness apart from no dash and no instaclear atm is MF.

The trinket lets you hit Vayne with skillshots, although it seems that rather than a shade of its model, a stealthed champion appears as an "afterimage" of its position every 0.5s, making high MS champs hard to track.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
November 18 2015 15:30 GMT
#308
On November 18 2015 23:57 Alaric wrote:
Vayne has no reach outside of her aa range, no waveclear and her steroids only work on units, so she's super strong in a fight but can't push, take towers quickly, or siege well. She's also supposed to be vulnerable in lane to champions who can either outtrade her (pre-work Graves, Corki, Lucian with frontloaded burst) or poke her out (Caitlyn).

Kalista... well her dps is supposed to be weak I guess? No steroid, so same she doesn't take towers fast, and her autos deal reduced damage. Her passive also makes her lose dps past some point I think?

Isn't she technically nerfed atm because BotRK has been made worse (both nerfed itself, and weaker compared to its competition) while Hurricane loses AS, weakening the AS/on-hit synergy (for Rend in her case) and making her rely more on crit when hers deal less damage than other marksmen?

One champ that doesn't really have a weakness apart from no dash and no instaclear atm is MF.

The trinket lets you hit Vayne with skillshots, although it seems that rather than a shade of its model, a stealthed champion appears as an "afterimage" of its position every 0.5s, making high MS champs hard to track.


Kalista isn't a good single target DPS champion anymore, since she's pretty much exclusively built Runaans now, her multi target DPS isn't too bad, especially if she gets big rend stacks on three or more (which is pretty hard, granted). Idk if you can say her turret taking power is weaker than most other ADC, she's building straight DPS, no crit which means that she hits towers hard. Doesn't compare to tower killers like Jinx or Trist though.

MF is a pretty BS champ atm, the punishment of being hit by her Q through the minion wave is pretty insane, it basically means that having range advantage can be a bad thing since it means when you're standing behind the wave you are susceptible to being hit by a Q worthy of being an IE crit. I wouldn't say she's blatantly broken, but her damage can be pretty scary, and Essence Reaver puts her ult on a pretty low CD, making it actually useful.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
November 18 2015 15:41 GMT
#309
On November 18 2015 23:24 Nos- wrote:
handcannon + shiv might just be a little too good together for someone like vayne right now

That build just got pretty nerfed now that warlords is hotfixed. Now you cant freely stay in lane farming minions due to the sustain it gave.

Gosu tried that build a few times last night after hotfix was live and was dumpstered hard each time. (probably still great build if you have a soraka though)

Feels like bork is back to being ideal first item on vayne, even saw stixxay do bork shiv rfc last night vs sneaky which seems promising as you get the sustain vayne wants but also the shiv plus rfc proc that does silly damage atm (also shiv is on the pbe nerf block where the shiv proc does less damage but has bettet waveclear)
Moderator。◕‿◕。
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
November 18 2015 15:43 GMT
#310
On November 19 2015 00:30 DarkCore wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2015 23:57 Alaric wrote:
Vayne has no reach outside of her aa range, no waveclear and her steroids only work on units, so she's super strong in a fight but can't push, take towers quickly, or siege well. She's also supposed to be vulnerable in lane to champions who can either outtrade her (pre-work Graves, Corki, Lucian with frontloaded burst) or poke her out (Caitlyn).

Kalista... well her dps is supposed to be weak I guess? No steroid, so same she doesn't take towers fast, and her autos deal reduced damage. Her passive also makes her lose dps past some point I think?

Isn't she technically nerfed atm because BotRK has been made worse (both nerfed itself, and weaker compared to its competition) while Hurricane loses AS, weakening the AS/on-hit synergy (for Rend in her case) and making her rely more on crit when hers deal less damage than other marksmen?

One champ that doesn't really have a weakness apart from no dash and no instaclear atm is MF.

The trinket lets you hit Vayne with skillshots, although it seems that rather than a shade of its model, a stealthed champion appears as an "afterimage" of its position every 0.5s, making high MS champs hard to track.


Kalista isn't a good single target DPS champion anymore, since she's pretty much exclusively built Runaans now, her multi target DPS isn't too bad, especially if she gets big rend stacks on three or more (which is pretty hard, granted). Idk if you can say her turret taking powbuter is weaker than most other ADC, she's building straight DPS, no crit which means that she hits towers hard. Doesn't compare to tower killers like Jinx or Trist though.

MF is a pretty BS champ atm, the punishment of being hit by her Q through the minion wave is pretty insane, it basically means that having range advantage can be a bad thing since it means when you're standing behind the wave you are susceptible to being hit by a Q worthy of being an IE crit. I wouldn't say she's blatantly broken, but her damage can be pretty scary, and Essence Reaver puts her ult on a pretty low CD, making it actually useful.

Runaans gives crit now so people are building stuff like IE again on her
Moderator。◕‿◕。
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
November 18 2015 15:45 GMT
#311
Kalista is super good if you have a couple protect the AD abilities and once you hit 3 items

MF is hilarious, I chunked a Rammus for like 1/3 of his health on about equal items. Also her ult does huge damage, it's absolutely ridiculous.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-18 15:59:19
November 18 2015 15:58 GMT
#312
Building BotRK and Hurricane, Kalista had much more AS than your average marksman, who made up for it with crit which doesn't work on towers. So she ended up doing more dps to towers if she could get in range, I'm not sure how the 90% aa damage factors in here.
What I was getting at is that with Hurricane's AS drastically reduced and BotRK nerfed, the on-hit route isn't worth it anymore, and Kalista ends up with a similar build to other marksmen, which has about as much AS but she still doesn't have a steroid and kept her aa damage reduction, so she's comparatively worse than them at killing towers now.


About MF, she's got great AoE damage from her ult, good burst thanks to her passive if she has to switch targets, and excellent dps because of her steroid (mainly because it's so easy to rise its duration to 9 seconds, 6 is basically built in). The strength of her steroid makes her good at killing towers.
Between her E and Q bounce+passive, she's good at harassing during sieges too, so her weaknesses are basically the lack of a dash, poor waveclear, and awful aa and ult animations (seriously).

Basically, she's good at too many things, or too good at them for how many she has access too. Having ~180 armour, her no LW yet, I took 1300 damage from her ult head-on (I went to 200 armour, she bought LW, I took 1500 damage for a slightly less complete ult). Buffing it was a thing, but making it scale with crit was both inelegant/forced, and over the top in terms of power.
If you combine such an ult and her passive in close-quarters, there's basically no good situation against her.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Caiada
Profile Joined January 2015
United States3052 Posts
November 18 2015 16:52 GMT
#313
Her ult should be disgusting, there's no other good reason to pick her. I'm just wondering why she then needed a 120% AS steroid and exactly whose idea that was. Even 90 will be ridiculous.
XDG Mata
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
November 18 2015 17:08 GMT
#314
That's the thing: if nor for her ult (Graves used to occupy the spot for AoE burst (physical) damage, Lucian too in some capacity although part of it body-blockable, and Corki for AoE magic damage in the midgame), they could have found another spot for her.
For example set her up as a marksman taking potshots by positioning on the edges of the fight, combining Struts and E's strong slow, and providing additional damage on the backline by with Q bounces triggering Love Tap.

Now she gets both, and stupid high amounts of dps too because of her steroid. It's like Thresh doing it all, something has to give (well Thresh doesn't rely on numbers so he still does everything).
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-18 18:31:56
November 18 2015 18:18 GMT
#315
--- Nuked ---
NpG)Explosive
Profile Joined January 2003
France994 Posts
November 18 2015 19:20 GMT
#316
On November 19 2015 03:18 krndandaman wrote:

maybe people just have to get better at respecting these new ranges but I still think it's dumb a champion like vayne can threaten from 800 range with very low CD. raise the cd or something and perhaps it'll be fine. or unique passive so it doesnt stack with shiv? anything so that you don't have ridiculous crit burst waveclear poke range ADDMOREHERE.



I think they need to make it unique passives: only the stronger proc should apply, as with multiple sheen items. Also the wiki suggests (it's not confirmed) than each item generates stacks so you get to use even more often, as if it wasn't dumb enough. I don't know if it's real but it clearly genertes very fast compared to old shiv.
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
November 18 2015 22:22 GMT
#317
On November 18 2015 23:24 Nos- wrote:
handcannon + shiv might just be a little too good together for someone like vayne right now


RFC/Shiv is probably too strong on all AD's. Its just a huge amount of surplus magic damage, kite(move speed and attack speed), and scaling [both in the crit mastery lifesteal and in the fact that you can tack on IE and an LW item and/or ER.

@krndandaman 700 range not 800, but still insane.
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
November 18 2015 22:32 GMT
#318
--- Nuked ---
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
November 18 2015 22:40 GMT
#319
They made it not unique on purpose, though, in the pre-season threads they advertised the combo as the ultimate poke combination or something, for sieges and waveclear.
'cept it's also the ultimate combo to stand up and fight since it provides 60% crit, ridiculous frontloaded burst for a pair intended for the sustained damage class, and a bunch of AS/MS.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
November 18 2015 22:48 GMT
#320
--- Nuked ---
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