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On November 06 2015 11:10 Ketara wrote:
Is there a post with the numbers on how bounties were changed? I'd like to see the details.
boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com
Also comments in this reddit thread for more comments from Riot.
I think it will be annoying to fall behind if some random on your team lost a kill streak across the map. It also probably won't accomplish its goal of making it worth it to gank the fed opponent because it doesn't solve the problem of you instantly losing if they countergank.
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well they way it works now, you are worth a lot of gold, but you are also really strong so it's risky to try to kill you. Now you are just a guy with a kill streak that isn't all that strong, compound that with the fact that getting killed no longer fully resets your kill streak, and getting a lot of kills on to one hero is actually super bad for your team.
I really hate this direction, it's blatant rubber banding masquerading as team play
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If I understood it right, in the new champion select you are going to show what champ you want to pick before the bans, meaning that if people who ban don't like it for some reason they may troll you and ban it. Do you think it will be safer to show different champ than the one you want to play and then switch (if its possible)?
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On November 06 2015 19:45 M2 wrote:
If I understood it right, in the new champion select you are going to show what champ you want to pick before the bans, meaning that if people who ban don't like it for some reason they may troll you and ban it. Do you think it will be safer to show different champ than the one you want to play and then switch (if its possible)?
It's more like "Hey, this is what I want to pick." and people can change things depending on teamcomp.
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On November 06 2015 11:09 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2015 05:52 TheYango wrote:
I mean, removing assist streaks means the combined bounty change is both a net decrease in complexity and increase in transparency. Also shows a complete 180 in design philosophy from last season where they removed global tower gold so one snowballing lane didn't also snowball other lanes.. Ironically this change actually has a greater effect there. If I rememeber the numbers right, a tower gave 125 global gold? Now ending a killing spree grants 190 global goal. The assassin in your top lane now hurts your lane by winning his lane, because inevitably he will get ganked.
You're ahed if you kill the enemy turret first, probably, hence the "snowball." If you end someone's kill streak, they had to get that streak to begin with so you're probably behind. I'm not a fan of making it global but catching up != snowballing.
And if the assassin winning his lane top TPs to your lane when you get ganked and get you a double kill because he's ahead, he doesn't lose you your lane.
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On November 06 2015 20:33 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2015 11:09 iCanada wrote:On November 06 2015 05:52 TheYango wrote:
I mean, removing assist streaks means the combined bounty change is both a net decrease in complexity and increase in transparency. Also shows a complete 180 in design philosophy from last season where they removed global tower gold so one snowballing lane didn't also snowball other lanes.. Ironically this change actually has a greater effect there. If I rememeber the numbers right, a tower gave 125 global gold? Now ending a killing spree grants 190 global goal. The assassin in your top lane now hurts your lane by winning his lane, because inevitably he will get ganked. You're ahed if you kill the enemy turret first, probably, hence the "snowball." If you end someone's kill streak, they had to get that streak to begin with so you're probably behind. I'm not a fan of making it global but catching up != snowballing. And if the assassin winning his lane top TPs to your lane when you get ganked and get you a double kill because he's ahead, he doesn't lose you your lane.
yea except even if he kills his lane dude twice he's only up 140g, if you have to expend summoners for a kill in the lane phase it's basically not worth it, why put a bounty on your head for 100g? The kill streak bounty system doesn't actually make any sense when combined with the global bounty system, I would like for it to be heavily nerfed or removed completely. If I have a net worth of 1k+ over my opponent and you manage to kill me 500g seems reasonable, when I have an advantage of ~200g why is there a 500g bounty on my head? by splitting the gold with my team I'm not being given the tools with which to defend the bounty.
This is exacerbated; by the fact that they have introduced kill streak bounty decay(not fully reseting your bounty on death). Making acquiring a kill streak extremely risky to your team.
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On November 07 2015 00:59 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2015 20:33 Alaric wrote:On November 06 2015 11:09 iCanada wrote:On November 06 2015 05:52 TheYango wrote:
I mean, removing assist streaks means the combined bounty change is both a net decrease in complexity and increase in transparency. Also shows a complete 180 in design philosophy from last season where they removed global tower gold so one snowballing lane didn't also snowball other lanes.. Ironically this change actually has a greater effect there. If I rememeber the numbers right, a tower gave 125 global gold? Now ending a killing spree grants 190 global goal. The assassin in your top lane now hurts your lane by winning his lane, because inevitably he will get ganked. You're ahed if you kill the enemy turret first, probably, hence the "snowball." If you end someone's kill streak, they had to get that streak to begin with so you're probably behind. I'm not a fan of making it global but catching up != snowballing. And if the assassin winning his lane top TPs to your lane when you get ganked and get you a double kill because he's ahead, he doesn't lose you your lane. yea except even if he kills his lane dude twice he's only up 140g, if you have to expend summoners for a kill in the lane phase it's basically not worth it, why put a bounty on your head for 100g? The kill streak bounty system doesn't actually make any sense when combined with the global bounty system, I would like for it to be heavily nerfed or removed completely. If I have a net worth of 1k+ over my opponent and you manage to kill me 500g seems reasonable, when I have an advantage of ~200g why is there a 500g bounty on my head? by splitting the gold with my team I'm not being given the tools with which to defend the bounty. This is exacerbated; by the fact that they have introduced kill streak bounty decay(not fully reseting your bounty on death). Making acquiring a kill streak extremely risky to your team.
A kill is worth 300g. I don't know how you can only be 140g ahead if you get 2 kills.
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You'll have to tell me how you view it, because your bounty goes up when you get kills, eg. when you get ~250 gold per kill (averaged over a few), not ~100.
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first blood (400) + second kill (300 (not actually 300 because he's 0-1 but go easy on me))
700g / 5 (global bounty system splits with your entire team.)
140g.
unless there is something I'm missing from that faq page (god I would love to be wrong cause this sounds awful)
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Only the bonus for your killing spree is global.
So you get first blood (400) + kill (300) = you have 700 gold.
You now have a tier 2 bounty which means if you die, you give out 30 global gold. The global gold is for the shutdown, not for getting kills.
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thanks for explaining, I'm actually relieved
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Yeah dude the change actually means if you're up 2 kills and your lane opponent gets a shutdown, he gets less gold than he did before and doesn't close the gap as much.
His teammates get some gold though.
Which is reasonable because much of the time if you're legendary or whatever it will take 2-3 people to kill you.
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Yea i had it all backwards for sure
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Re Keystone Masteries, and complaints that there aren't meaningful choices:
http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/mVU9AUuW-dev-blog-keystone-masteries-in-the-2016-season
Before moving on, I’d just like to highlight how freeing the new exclusivity changes are, design wise. Under the old system, if we put a bunch of powerful stuff deep in the offense tree, you would just take it all. Because of this, power on any individual mastery had to be tuned low and 21 pointers had to be pretty generalized - we were basically balancing for Kayle. No longer! With the addition of exclusivity between masteries in the same tier, we can finally make things speak to specific classes of a champion, instead of “has a pulse and a basic attack.”
So then after taking a look at the tree some of you may be thinking, “WTF MAN I PLAY AP JINX AND CLEARLY THE ONLY THING WORTH TAKING FOR ME HERE IS MASTERY X. MASTERIES DON’T MATTER! WHERE ARE MY MEANINGFUL CHOICES!?” Well... to be honest, that’s not the primary goal here. What we want is for every champion to feel like there’s a mastery path for them. More specifically, we’re hoping to draw out and amplify some of the cool things your champion’s kit does, instead of just loading on general power.
As an example, while Janna may appreciate +10% AP, she’s going to feel much more excited about a +10% amp to shields and heals. One of these stats is for almost everyone, but the other speaks to a number of specific supports. Choice in the system is a secondary goal that, while nice to have, is not as important. There’s 126 champions out there and limited space in the tree, so we’d prefer a world where Soraka and Brand both have 1 path that speaks to them, instead of Brand getting 2 and Soraka crying in the corner. That said, giving players meaningful choices is still an important goal, so we’re trying to add it into the trees where we can. We just may not be able to do it for EVERY champion. Also looking at it in other places this preseason, like the item system.
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WoW realized a while ago that a bunch of small 'choices' add up to a bunch of useless lip service when you aggregate them. I'm glad LoL thought of some way to make them more interesting. They're getting a lot better at specificity.
Now I just hope Riot guts the boring rune system at some point too.
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I doubt that Riot will ever gut runes. It sucks IP away from champions which indirectly makes them a ton of money.
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On November 07 2015 08:43 GrandInquisitor wrote:Re Keystone Masteries, and complaints that there aren't meaningful choices: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/mVU9AUuW-dev-blog-keystone-masteries-in-the-2016-seasonShow nested quote +Before moving on, I’d just like to highlight how freeing the new exclusivity changes are, design wise. Under the old system, if we put a bunch of powerful stuff deep in the offense tree, you would just take it all. Because of this, power on any individual mastery had to be tuned low and 21 pointers had to be pretty generalized - we were basically balancing for Kayle. No longer! With the addition of exclusivity between masteries in the same tier, we can finally make things speak to specific classes of a champion, instead of “has a pulse and a basic attack.”
So then after taking a look at the tree some of you may be thinking, “WTF MAN I PLAY AP JINX AND CLEARLY THE ONLY THING WORTH TAKING FOR ME HERE IS MASTERY X. MASTERIES DON’T MATTER! WHERE ARE MY MEANINGFUL CHOICES!?” Well... to be honest, that’s not the primary goal here. What we want is for every champion to feel like there’s a mastery path for them. More specifically, we’re hoping to draw out and amplify some of the cool things your champion’s kit does, instead of just loading on general power.
As an example, while Janna may appreciate +10% AP, she’s going to feel much more excited about a +10% amp to shields and heals. One of these stats is for almost everyone, but the other speaks to a number of specific supports. Choice in the system is a secondary goal that, while nice to have, is not as important. There’s 126 champions out there and limited space in the tree, so we’d prefer a world where Soraka and Brand both have 1 path that speaks to them, instead of Brand getting 2 and Soraka crying in the corner. That said, giving players meaningful choices is still an important goal, so we’re trying to add it into the trees where we can. We just may not be able to do it for EVERY champion. Also looking at it in other places this preseason, like the item system.
TLDR: We really should just remove masteries.
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Most interesting part of that for me is them saying that they left room for more masteries and would like people to make suggestions on things that are missing for them to add.
Would be fun to go through champions and try to find playstyles that none of the current mastery offers fit.
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so kills are actually less important to spread across your carries now?
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On November 07 2015 08:43 GrandInquisitor wrote:Re Keystone Masteries, and complaints that there aren't meaningful choices: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/mVU9AUuW-dev-blog-keystone-masteries-in-the-2016-seasonShow nested quote +Before moving on, I’d just like to highlight how freeing the new exclusivity changes are, design wise. Under the old system, if we put a bunch of powerful stuff deep in the offense tree, you would just take it all. Because of this, power on any individual mastery had to be tuned low and 21 pointers had to be pretty generalized - we were basically balancing for Kayle. No longer! With the addition of exclusivity between masteries in the same tier, we can finally make things speak to specific classes of a champion, instead of “has a pulse and a basic attack.”
So then after taking a look at the tree some of you may be thinking, “WTF MAN I PLAY AP JINX AND CLEARLY THE ONLY THING WORTH TAKING FOR ME HERE IS MASTERY X. MASTERIES DON’T MATTER! WHERE ARE MY MEANINGFUL CHOICES!?” Well... to be honest, that’s not the primary goal here. What we want is for every champion to feel like there’s a mastery path for them. More specifically, we’re hoping to draw out and amplify some of the cool things your champion’s kit does, instead of just loading on general power.
As an example, while Janna may appreciate +10% AP, she’s going to feel much more excited about a +10% amp to shields and heals. One of these stats is for almost everyone, but the other speaks to a number of specific supports. Choice in the system is a secondary goal that, while nice to have, is not as important. There’s 126 champions out there and limited space in the tree, so we’d prefer a world where Soraka and Brand both have 1 path that speaks to them, instead of Brand getting 2 and Soraka crying in the corner. That said, giving players meaningful choices is still an important goal, so we’re trying to add it into the trees where we can. We just may not be able to do it for EVERY champion. Also looking at it in other places this preseason, like the item system.
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If they are purposely just making one path the best, why even have the masteries in the first place? Just buff every champion a little bit, or remove them entirely and dont worry about replacing them.
Lolwtf. Like why over complicate it if you dont want each player to make a choice? Get rid of them and then adjust champions base stats / minion stats / jungle stats accordingly. I honestly dont think it would make any difference if they totally removed Masteries. They are just adding unneccesary complexity and adding noob traps if they meet their design goals.
I feel the same about runes, tbh. That being said, I've been playing for years and recognize the huge advantage having 18 runepages gives me over the average player. I aint even mad.
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EPT
