[Patch 5.14] Bilgewater General Discussion - Page 23

On July 27 2015 23:06 Numy wrote:
What? I'd love for ADC not to be mandatory either. The whole setup with LoL feels so miff. Would love junglers to not be required either.

On July 28 2015 04:10 cLutZ wrote:


No ADC means less homogeneous powercurves are required (i.e. a character that is 50+ farm behind is actually ahead) which is the opposite of Riot's design philosophy, so IDK where GC is getting his meds.

On July 28 2015 04:25 sob3k wrote:


you're gonna have to explain your reasoning behind that

On July 28 2015 04:43 TheYango wrote:

Homogeneous powercurves means that laning advantages are inordinately powerful. If you have a melee carry laning against ADC+support, they're going to come out of laning behind, so in order for it to be stable going into the midgame, the inherent strength of its kit needs it to be as strong/stronger at that point in time in spite of the gold disadvantage of being weaker in lane.

On July 28 2015 05:14 cLutZ wrote:


Basically. Its basically just you imagine whatever is your "ADC replacement" in a Caitlyn-Janna or Lucian-Alistar, or whatever lane. I like Jax, so I pick Jax, how many CS are you going to be behind as a Jax with whatever optimal support there is for Jax(Janna?) vs. those lanes? Probably you are missing 30-50% of CS, plus losing your tower right away. Maybe a dragon, and your jungler loses that side of his jungle, even though your duo lane is there.

So, hypothetical Jax needs to be as useful as said ADC at some point in the game down several core items, and then later needs to be stronger even when down core items. This is the opposite of the direction they are going with things like the Trist rework, their statements on Poppy, ADC itemization, dragon stacking, etc. You are meant to win this game by winning lane, and using that marginal advantage to pick up more marginal advantages. Not by surviving and then exploding onto your enemies with a 3 item timing.

On July 28 2015 05:31 TheYango wrote:
The trouble that arises then is that such a hypothetical hero has the tools to lane 2v2 vs AD+Support has to not be totally oppressive 1v1 top also. Otherwise, you'd just run him top with normal ADC+Supp anyway.

It's not just the issue of making *a* hero that can lane vs ADC/Supp, but systematically opening up the option enough that from a teamcomp perspective, you have enough incentive to build a teamcomp that actually uses that hero in the dual lane rather than soloing it in a normal teamcomp.

On July 28 2015 05:43 VayneAuthority wrote:
said hero already exists, his name is yasuo. Has every tool you want bot lane to be successful as a replacement melee adc. me and my duo run yasuo/blitz bot at d2-ish with high success, id say around 75% winrate.

The actual problem is the psychological impact it has on your teammates, nothing to do with the game itself. People will think you are trolling and you either

1. start actually trolling and ruining game at champ select

2. pick something stupid like adc mid/top defeating the entire point of having such a comp.

3. pick something they don't play "meh we lost" attitude


and the reasons yasuo does well bot is hypothetical infinite mobility, windwall, scales better with items instead of levels. he also isn't taking up a role that could synergize with him since I think the only adc that can knockup people is kalista.

On July 28 2015 06:19 cLutZ wrote:


I don't doubt your success, I just wonder if you have also gotten it to work with a safer support (obviously with a knockup) like Ali/Thresh/Janna? It does seem like a very strong lane if they react poorly.

On July 28 2015 04:47 krndandaman wrote:


idk I saw someone do some math and apparently ardent censer was better? especially earlier on.
zeke's gets pretty good lategame though since you essentially get near 100% crit for your adc.