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[Patch 5.13] Tahm Kench General Discussion - Page 15

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MooMooMugi
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States10531 Posts
July 11 2015 01:02 GMT
#281
Just tried the new devourer on Kayle mid and wow I was doing so much damage, comparable to prenerf Kayle. Proccing devourer + nashors + runaans every other attack is sooo broken
|LoL & SC2 IGN both my username| Just livin' the baylife| Hearthstone ID: MooMooMugi#1544| Dank Memer since 2011
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
July 11 2015 01:44 GMT
#282
Wait, do you mean that Runaan's bolts is considered an on-hit effect?
It triggers on-hit effects too though. So do the on-hits on the bolts get doubled too, or you just get them twice because the bolts themselves are triggered twice?
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
July 11 2015 01:50 GMT
#283
Runnans bolts are considered on-attack. But the bolts themselves apply on-hit effects(as is their bonus damage an on-hit effect). Devourer is an on-attack effect and so the on-hit portions of ruunans should apply twice on the devourerrs attack

So you don't get double bolts but you do get double the on-hit
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
July 11 2015 02:54 GMT
#284
Does Rylais slow proc on the AOE from Runeglaive?
Freeeeeeedom
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
July 11 2015 03:06 GMT
#285
No. At least, it shouldn't.
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
July 11 2015 03:19 GMT
#286
I hate these stacking juingle items.

Brings out the worst players. I dont care if you want to hard farm, but dont be that guy that taxes a wave from all your lanes every other wave. Like jesus.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
July 11 2015 03:49 GMT
#287
On July 11 2015 12:19 iCanada wrote:
I hate these stacking juingle items.

Brings out the worst players. I dont care if you want to hard farm, but dont be that guy that taxes a wave from all your lanes every other wave. Like jesus.


Learn to just embrace hating all jungle items. What good have they ever done? Given us 3 straight seasons of tiny jungle champion pools? Turned lanes into a shitshow whenever they are decent?
Freeeeeeedom
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 11 2015 04:58 GMT
#288
I haven't tried Tahm jungle yet, but I am pretty sure he can't lane or support at this point.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
July 11 2015 05:13 GMT
#289
On July 11 2015 13:58 Sufficiency wrote:
I haven't tried Tahm jungle yet, but I am pretty sure he can't lane or support at this point.


I think Tahm Jungle will be must pick ban in pro play.

In Soloqueue, I've had some success, but he suffers from a terrible terrible first clear. Until he has QWE he just gets torn apart in the jungle... like honestly probably the worst first clear in the game. This kind of doesn't matter when you double jangling.

And then you get the E healing going, and the W stopping a minion from attacking you for like 10 seconds, and he goes from the worst clear to like the best in the game as far as a tank is concerned. His early ganks are.... mediocre. Same as Sej. But once he hits 6, look out. Its like Nocturne with Instant Slow CC, no warning, a stun... And thats if he shows up alone. Not to mention, honestly, I think he is the best diving jungle ganker in the game, no matter which cham,p takes aggro first.

AND he hits like a damn truck.
Nos-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada12016 Posts
July 11 2015 06:02 GMT
#290
Tahm kench's shield is straight hilarious
Bronze player stuck in platinum
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 11 2015 06:06 GMT
#291
On July 11 2015 14:13 iCanada wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2015 13:58 Sufficiency wrote:
I haven't tried Tahm jungle yet, but I am pretty sure he can't lane or support at this point.


I think Tahm Jungle will be must pick ban in pro play.

In Soloqueue, I've had some success, but he suffers from a terrible terrible first clear. Until he has QWE he just gets torn apart in the jungle... like honestly probably the worst first clear in the game. This kind of doesn't matter when you double jangling.

And then you get the E healing going, and the W stopping a minion from attacking you for like 10 seconds, and he goes from the worst clear to like the best in the game as far as a tank is concerned. His early ganks are.... mediocre. Same as Sej. But once he hits 6, look out. Its like Nocturne with Instant Slow CC, no warning, a stun... And thats if he shows up alone. Not to mention, honestly, I think he is the best diving jungle ganker in the game, no matter which cham,p takes aggro first.

AND he hits like a damn truck.


I suspect this much as well. I'll willing to give it a shot next time.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-11 06:42:16
July 11 2015 06:28 GMT
#292
On July 11 2015 15:02 Nos- wrote:
Tahm kench's shield is straight hilarious


Right?

Only thing I dont like about him is his lack of gap closers.

With gold on this guy you deal nearly 200 Magic Damage on hit, and in fights you can just straight tank nearly 12k damage.

He also gives very few fucks about taking AP ez shots to the face. Heals like 44%*1.2 = 53%of it right back, then you consider that he's tanky as fuck and has a solid 5k HP at least, and he is like the ultimate anti AP Ez Jungler, assuming your teammates can hide behind you.

I'm not sure if you can build anything but like straight tank on him without being troll... Which is kind of a shame because I am finding I am getting a lot of gold on him from the jungle. I'd equate his jungling to gragas, to be honest. Scary scary jungler. Maybe like Wits End? Zephyr? Statikk Shiv? I guess he wouldn't hate Trinity force? I dunno. I feel likle increasing your AS would be huge offensively, but all the items I feel like he wastes a lot of the stats... Crit useless on him, same with AD / AP. I would like Wits but it is just so... bad. So cost inefficient.

Black cleaver would be nice, but all his damage is magical.

I have decided RG sucks on him though, pointless when you can just use your ult for the same thing.
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-11 08:41:07
July 11 2015 07:24 GMT
#293
On July 11 2015 15:28 iCanada wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2015 15:02 Nos- wrote:
Tahm kench's shield is straight hilarious


Right?

Only thing I dont like about him is his lack of gap closers.

With gold on this guy you deal nearly 200 Magic Damage on hit, and in fights you can just straight tank nearly 12k damage.

He also gives very few fucks about taking AP ez shots to the face. Heals like 44%*1.2 = 53%of it right back, then you consider that he's tanky as fuck and has a solid 5k HP at least, and he is like the ultimate anti AP Ez Jungler, assuming your teammates can hide behind you.

I'm not sure if you can build anything but like straight tank on him without being troll... Which is kind of a shame because I am finding I am getting a lot of gold on him from the jungle. I'd equate his jungling to gragas, to be honest. Scary scary jungler. Maybe like Wits End? Zephyr? Statikk Shiv? I guess he wouldn't hate Trinity force? I dunno. I feel likle increasing your AS would be huge offensively, but all the items I feel like he wastes a lot of the stats... Crit useless on him, same with AD / AP. I would like Wits but it is just so... bad. So cost inefficient.

Black cleaver would be nice, but all his damage is magical.

I have decided RG sucks on him though, pointless when you can just use your ult for the same thing.

I know he's not a burst mage with sick ratios, but is Nashor's too crazy? Probably a dumb question, but how does Liandry's/Rylai's interact with his basic attacks after 6?
gobbledydook
Profile Joined October 2012
Australia2605 Posts
July 11 2015 07:40 GMT
#294
So am I just supposed to indiscriminately invade and take their camps in 3 seconds and light up their jungle? Maybe I'm trying too hard to gank when I might be better served just counter jungling them?
I am a dirty Protoss bullshit abuser
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23460 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-11 10:17:21
July 11 2015 10:15 GMT
#295
On July 11 2015 08:41 Frolossus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2015 08:26 Seuss wrote:
I've analyzed Frolossus video and I'll keep it short.

While Shyvana had a lot of assists and kills, I think that only slightly accelerated Devourer's stacking. based on that game I think it's fair to say that past 30-35 minutes Old Devourer is better than New Devourer (factoring in W and E uptime).

However, New Devourer will tend to hit Sated roughly 15 minutes before that point, and is stronger than Old Devourer before then, so you have a fairly significant window (20-25 minutes) where New Devourer is stronger. New Devourer is also more bursty, which isn't something we can adequately measure and compare without going into excruciating detail.

All in all there's meat to Frolossus' complaint and I'm sympathetic as they've effectively changed how he has to play her.

i think it is more concerning for characters that itemize and play similarly but weren't already shyvana tier.
i'll continue to play the same exact way as before it's just less optimal now.

Show nested quote +
On July 11 2015 07:43 Slayer91 wrote:
not sure what game you guys are playing that 20 free resists is enough and also shyvana "amazing chase potential"
probably the worst chasing melee ive ever played
no slows and a just a short speed up that relies on melee range to last more than a few seconds and a jukeable ult

you run MS quints, blue smite, exhaust, randuins, bork and whore red buff. people don't escape and you 3 hit squishies

Show nested quote +
On July 11 2015 08:41 iCanada wrote:
On July 11 2015 08:26 Seuss wrote:
I've analyzed Frolossus video and I'll keep it short.

While Shyvana had a lot of assists and kills, I think that only slightly accelerated Devourer's stacking. based on that game I think it's fair to say that past 30-35 minutes Old Devourer is better than New Devourer (factoring in W and E uptime).

However, New Devourer will tend to hit Sated roughly 15 minutes before that point, and is stronger than Old Devourer before then, so you have a fairly significant window (20-25 minutes) where New Devourer is stronger. New Devourer is also more bursty, which isn't something we can adequately measure and compare without going into excruciating detail.

All in all there's meat to Frolossus' complaint and I'm sympathetic as they've effectively changed how he has to play her.


I'd also argue that a huge nerf in general, seeing how Shyvana falls off a cliff after 30 minutes or so as it is; she goes from being a duelist god who is forcing objectives or small skirmishes which she wins which lead to Objectives, to like... a useless tank with little threat because she has no CC and can't really team fight.

If you dont give your teams big leads on Shyvana before everyone is starting to hit 4 items or so you are probably going to lose. Ideally you win the game before then, lol.

i think she is strongest as a late game carry type of character similar but better than a jax or irelia. she comfortable 1v3s or better at the end of the game.


none of these things make you a good chase champion
what you're describing is the worst chase champ in the game building items exclusively to cover that weakness
im going all that stuff (except ms quints) and still find it difficult assuming their team has any cc
not that i think shyv is weak I just think you're vastly overrating the champion's lategame.
like many melees she can 1v3 lategame with a gold lead vs an underfarmed team but in more typical games strong damage with some annoying cc like thresh or naut or something makes life difficult for you
aka Teutonica
OmegaKnetus
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany431 Posts
July 11 2015 11:33 GMT
#296
I find shyvana lackluster in general. She has been in a ton of my games lately probably because her winrate on champion.gg was very high last patch.

In all of those games she either didnt do anything early on and has zero impact or got extremely fed and still had zero impact.
The champion has zero ways to stick to a target and a measly blue smite/bork slow wont help you in a team fight setting.

She's pretty much relegated to splitpushing and even on those she cant dive people under turret (except if her opponents are braindead).

She can be a good pick in some situations, but its not a great blindpick
Caiada
Profile Joined January 2015
United States3052 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-11 13:09:36
July 11 2015 13:08 GMT
#297
Nobody knows how to play a champ with half a gap closer and minimal CC. Builds are also all over the goddamn place.
XDG Mata
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
July 11 2015 13:11 GMT
#298
On July 11 2015 19:15 Slayer91 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2015 08:41 Frolossus wrote:
On July 11 2015 08:26 Seuss wrote:
I've analyzed Frolossus video and I'll keep it short.

While Shyvana had a lot of assists and kills, I think that only slightly accelerated Devourer's stacking. based on that game I think it's fair to say that past 30-35 minutes Old Devourer is better than New Devourer (factoring in W and E uptime).

However, New Devourer will tend to hit Sated roughly 15 minutes before that point, and is stronger than Old Devourer before then, so you have a fairly significant window (20-25 minutes) where New Devourer is stronger. New Devourer is also more bursty, which isn't something we can adequately measure and compare without going into excruciating detail.

All in all there's meat to Frolossus' complaint and I'm sympathetic as they've effectively changed how he has to play her.

i think it is more concerning for characters that itemize and play similarly but weren't already shyvana tier.
i'll continue to play the same exact way as before it's just less optimal now.

On July 11 2015 07:43 Slayer91 wrote:
not sure what game you guys are playing that 20 free resists is enough and also shyvana "amazing chase potential"
probably the worst chasing melee ive ever played
no slows and a just a short speed up that relies on melee range to last more than a few seconds and a jukeable ult

you run MS quints, blue smite, exhaust, randuins, bork and whore red buff. people don't escape and you 3 hit squishies

On July 11 2015 08:41 iCanada wrote:
On July 11 2015 08:26 Seuss wrote:
I've analyzed Frolossus video and I'll keep it short.

While Shyvana had a lot of assists and kills, I think that only slightly accelerated Devourer's stacking. based on that game I think it's fair to say that past 30-35 minutes Old Devourer is better than New Devourer (factoring in W and E uptime).

However, New Devourer will tend to hit Sated roughly 15 minutes before that point, and is stronger than Old Devourer before then, so you have a fairly significant window (20-25 minutes) where New Devourer is stronger. New Devourer is also more bursty, which isn't something we can adequately measure and compare without going into excruciating detail.

All in all there's meat to Frolossus' complaint and I'm sympathetic as they've effectively changed how he has to play her.


I'd also argue that a huge nerf in general, seeing how Shyvana falls off a cliff after 30 minutes or so as it is; she goes from being a duelist god who is forcing objectives or small skirmishes which she wins which lead to Objectives, to like... a useless tank with little threat because she has no CC and can't really team fight.

If you dont give your teams big leads on Shyvana before everyone is starting to hit 4 items or so you are probably going to lose. Ideally you win the game before then, lol.

i think she is strongest as a late game carry type of character similar but better than a jax or irelia. she comfortable 1v3s or better at the end of the game.


none of these things make you a good chase champion
what you're describing is the worst chase champ in the game building items exclusively to cover that weakness
im going all that stuff (except ms quints) and still find it difficult assuming their team has any cc
not that i think shyv is weak I just think you're vastly overrating the champion's lategame.
like many melees she can 1v3 lategame with a gold lead vs an underfarmed team but in more typical games strong damage with some annoying cc like thresh or naut or something makes life difficult for you

having burnout makes you a bad chase champion?
it's like yi but better in that regard because highlander has a long cool down
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23460 Posts
July 11 2015 13:17 GMT
#299
burnout doesn't compare to master yi's ult at all
aka Teutonica
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
July 11 2015 13:28 GMT
#300
On July 11 2015 22:11 Frolossus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2015 19:15 Slayer91 wrote:
On July 11 2015 08:41 Frolossus wrote:
On July 11 2015 08:26 Seuss wrote:
I've analyzed Frolossus video and I'll keep it short.

While Shyvana had a lot of assists and kills, I think that only slightly accelerated Devourer's stacking. based on that game I think it's fair to say that past 30-35 minutes Old Devourer is better than New Devourer (factoring in W and E uptime).

However, New Devourer will tend to hit Sated roughly 15 minutes before that point, and is stronger than Old Devourer before then, so you have a fairly significant window (20-25 minutes) where New Devourer is stronger. New Devourer is also more bursty, which isn't something we can adequately measure and compare without going into excruciating detail.

All in all there's meat to Frolossus' complaint and I'm sympathetic as they've effectively changed how he has to play her.

i think it is more concerning for characters that itemize and play similarly but weren't already shyvana tier.
i'll continue to play the same exact way as before it's just less optimal now.

On July 11 2015 07:43 Slayer91 wrote:
not sure what game you guys are playing that 20 free resists is enough and also shyvana "amazing chase potential"
probably the worst chasing melee ive ever played
no slows and a just a short speed up that relies on melee range to last more than a few seconds and a jukeable ult

you run MS quints, blue smite, exhaust, randuins, bork and whore red buff. people don't escape and you 3 hit squishies

On July 11 2015 08:41 iCanada wrote:
On July 11 2015 08:26 Seuss wrote:
I've analyzed Frolossus video and I'll keep it short.

While Shyvana had a lot of assists and kills, I think that only slightly accelerated Devourer's stacking. based on that game I think it's fair to say that past 30-35 minutes Old Devourer is better than New Devourer (factoring in W and E uptime).

However, New Devourer will tend to hit Sated roughly 15 minutes before that point, and is stronger than Old Devourer before then, so you have a fairly significant window (20-25 minutes) where New Devourer is stronger. New Devourer is also more bursty, which isn't something we can adequately measure and compare without going into excruciating detail.

All in all there's meat to Frolossus' complaint and I'm sympathetic as they've effectively changed how he has to play her.


I'd also argue that a huge nerf in general, seeing how Shyvana falls off a cliff after 30 minutes or so as it is; she goes from being a duelist god who is forcing objectives or small skirmishes which she wins which lead to Objectives, to like... a useless tank with little threat because she has no CC and can't really team fight.

If you dont give your teams big leads on Shyvana before everyone is starting to hit 4 items or so you are probably going to lose. Ideally you win the game before then, lol.

i think she is strongest as a late game carry type of character similar but better than a jax or irelia. she comfortable 1v3s or better at the end of the game.


none of these things make you a good chase champion
what you're describing is the worst chase champ in the game building items exclusively to cover that weakness
im going all that stuff (except ms quints) and still find it difficult assuming their team has any cc
not that i think shyv is weak I just think you're vastly overrating the champion's lategame.
like many melees she can 1v3 lategame with a gold lead vs an underfarmed team but in more typical games strong damage with some annoying cc like thresh or naut or something makes life difficult for you

having burnout makes you a bad chase champion?
it's like yi but better in that regard because highlander has a long cool down

Burnout doesn't protect Shyvana from AS slows like Highlander does,
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