EPT[Patch 5.10] Ekko General Discussion - Page 11
| Forum Index > LoL General |
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
 Going down to 10% per spell cast is a bit much I think, but there's no doubt the item is strong. I guess it solidifies it as 'only get if you frequently cast spells', rather than just 'get for more damage'. | ||
|
killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On May 30 2015 09:51 JazzVortical wrote: Alaric you should play Syndra. You would explode Going down to 10% per spell cast is a bit much I think, but there's no doubt the item is strong. I guess it solidifies it as 'only get if you frequently cast spells', rather than just 'get for more damage'. Unless they lower the base damage, it's use as a first item won't change. The wave control it gives if you can rush it is just insane. Objectively it gets outperformed in single target damage really early on already, people buy it for the poke, and for the aoe shove. Both of which are still going to be really good. It's just going to go from a must buy item, to a "get this if you're snowballing early on a roamer" item. | ||
|
cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
| ||
|
Ketara
United States15065 Posts
It's okay to have an awkward 6 item build if you're ending the game at 4 items. I seem to remember my opinion of it when it came out was that it wasn't going to be for everybody, but on the people it was good on it was going to be completely OP and it was going to get nerfed sooner or later. I would like to take this time to stroke my own ego. | ||
|
Kinie
United States3106 Posts
Morellos might be easier/better (cheaper than Athenes) on him, I'll have to try that out soon. It could also be that he might work better with CDR boots than Magic Pen. Boots, though you will miss out on having the mana regen from Morellos/Athenes. | ||
|
Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On May 30 2015 14:43 Ketara wrote: As it turns out, AP+Movespeed+Waveclear is an ideal first item timing for a lot of APs even if it feels awkward in a 6 item build. It's okay to have an awkward 6 item build if you're ending the game at 4 items. I seem to remember my opinion of it when it came out was that it wasn't going to be for everybody, but on the people it was good on it was going to be completely OP and it was going to get nerfed sooner or later. I would like to take this time to stroke my own ego. Its not awkward in a 6 item build; its awkward in a 4 item build. Its just that the power the poke/siege/waveclear can bring you gets you to the 4 item build faster than if you didn't get it, so might as well get it | ||
|
Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On May 30 2015 15:19 Goumindong wrote: Its not awkward in a 6 item build; its awkward in a 4 item build. Its just that the power the poke/siege/waveclear can bring you gets you to the 4 item build faster than if you didn't get it, so might as well get it why is it awkward? boots, ludens, zhonyas or mana item, void staff | ||
|
I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
He's still extremely fun to play still though. | ||
|
Alaric
France45622 Posts
The charge is a channeled state which can be cancelled like any other by silences/stuns/suppressions/displacement/taunts/charms (I don't know how Amumu's Entangle interacts with channels). Since it moves him once cast it's possible roots interrupt it too (I know Vi's Q is interrupted if you get rooted while charging, no idea about Varus' Q). That's why champions like Thresh are must-ban for me whenever you plan to play something like Nautilus/Vi/Zac: it's way too easy for easy for him to screw over an important part of your kit without effort, and he makes it incredibly hard to get away too. On May 30 2015 09:37 JimmiC wrote: guess you have never read a little story called "the boy who cried wolf" Too bad there actually was a wolf the whole timle, then (I haven't checked 'cause I haven't played her but I'm pretty sure Vi is still bugged, and while it isn't a bug per se and you may not experience it if you only play the champ once in awhile, the issue with hitboxes for forward-hitting spells starting behind you on stuff such as Nautilus' Dredge Line is something that doesn't behave as expected). I didn't really like Luden's but that's because I pretty much only play Viktor and Orianna as mages, Viktor's item timings are skewed by the augment and I'd rather have more AP as Orianna (plus I'm going to build Morello or Grail first anyway) for the RW combo but also the shield value. I took it from time to time on Viktor because it helped deal more damage with E (long-ish cooldown, and it's the only spell you use at range) in situations where it was too dangerous for me to get close. But the early %MS felt better for me than the damaging passive anyway. | ||
|
Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On May 30 2015 16:04 Frolossus wrote: why is it awkward? boots, ludens, zhonyas or mana item, void staff Because once you have your second (or third depending) item Deathcap is enough for wave clear, but fights significantly better in near every situation. And Deathcap will be getting close to doing more damage on poke too. Many of the mages that this isn't strictly true on have significant utility AP scaling (shields/etc) which make the cap perform better. [There are a few where the Luden's is still super good, but few/far between] A good example is Karma. W,RQ (no secondary hit) has an AP ratio of 1.8(assuming no auto attacks). Which means that Cap>Echo at 215 AP(Cap/Echo +95 AP from anywhere, which is about masteries/runes/dorans for just Cap). If you get both procs of the Q its 175. If you get both procs and two auto attacks off its 166. Champions who either have high ratios (Annie, Brand, Viktor) or small ratios they can consistently apply (Fizz, Zyra, Anivia, Azir, Karthus), or who rely heavily on high ratio all-ins/combos (Ahri, LeBlanc) will stack damage in such a way that Echo cannot keep up with cap in terms of damage at a 1 item timing, let alone two or three. So its awkward because you get to 3-4 items and you no longer have enough of a wave clear advantage to not say "i would rather have this clearly superior item" Its not awkward at 6 items because well, you already have Zhonya's, Cap, Void, Boots, another item which can be offensive/defensive/cdr/mana, might as well round out the last one with a 120 AP item that has a bonus damage proc on ability use (since not everyone can easily make use of Lichbane) edit: There was a wolf the whole time in the boy who cried wolf story too alaric  But its unfair to say Alaric gets a lot of bugs. Ive had a lot of the things that happened to him happen to me. He just reports them here more | ||
|
ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
| ||
|
Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
On May 30 2015 19:34 ticklishmusic wrote: New Karma OP, I'm outdamaging everyone except the midlaner in 2/3 games as a support That was possible with old Karma as well and is really easy with Zyra and Vel'Koz. Still noone would claim either is op. | ||
|
Ketara
United States15065 Posts
League is listing Ekko as Assassin>Fighter. Historically I feel like that has been something of a hard role grouping to balance. Other Assassin>Fighters are: Fizz Kha'Zix Nidalee Nocturne Rengar Talon Zed I feel like aside from Nocturne and Talon, that's a pretty good list of the champions that have needed to be rebalanced over and over and over and over and over and over. Nocturne I think would make more sense as Fighter>Assassin anyway. | ||
|
ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On one hand you need enough damage to be able to instantly eliminate a priority target on a reasonable amount of farm, but also a reasonable amount of survivability either through tank stats or slipperiness to get in and get out without getting blown up. Most champs aren't as extreme because they only need moderate amounts of each to function or can be very heavily weighted toward one dimension or the other and have a clear weakness, but assassins need to be balanced in both dimensions and it's difficult to predict how modifying part of a kit, especially if it's part of the survivability, will impact viability as a whole. Notably, riot has begun nerfing a lot of tanks with one shot/1 second kill potential on squishes, like hecarim and gragas Interestingly, although riot tends to release champs much stronger than they need to be then need them later the list you made seems to include a lot that were egregiously op. | ||
|
Lylat
France8575 Posts
| ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On May 30 2015 23:22 JimmiC wrote: It makes sense to release them strong. Firstly it increases the number of people who buy them, and secondly in theory people should be bad at them so a little over tune should help even that out. But mainly I think it's for more $$$$ i don't believe that they do this. yes ekko is a too strong but release bard was very underwhelming. additionally wukong, xerath, trundle, zac, vel'koz, poppy, quinn, galio, malz, aatrox all had pretty average or below average releases. it's only a handful of characters that get released that are absurdly strong and usually that comes from the sheer quantity of things that are included in those characters kits that make them very nerf resistant. such as elise, jayce, lee sin, nidalee, thresh etc. i think ekko definitely fits in this category of having too much shit. | ||
|
Caiada
United States3052 Posts
Luden's is mostly good as an early item or a last item. The first is where you're basically at/above Dcap's level in realistic situations for damage (above for 1 item, slightly below for 2) but can use situational burst/poke/waveclear, and last item is pretty obvious because 120 AP and bonus damage is pretty sweet when you have Dcap/Void/Zhonya's/other AP item. If you've gone Morello/Zhonya/Void, Dcap has outscaled Luden's for the gold cost. | ||
|
ChaoSbringer
Australia1382 Posts
| ||
| ||
