EPT[Patch 5.9] Ashe Rework General Discussion - Page 33
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21243 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Junglers don't give me second blue on Lux in at least half my Lux games, and it makes me want to rage. (Sometimes I do rage) I remember I asked Scip about this a year ago and his logic was pretty good. He was like "If mid has blue they can shove and roam. I'd rather two man gank something than gank by myself with blue." Makes a lot of sense to me. But the CN/KR argument is pretty silly. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
(The fact that I almost only play Naut certainly plays a part, as I take non-negligible damage doing it and it gets worse if I have to wait, while spending mana too on a mana-hungry as hell champ. So if I lose 300 HP and 15 seconds on a buff for them to all-in and die instead of coming, I won't handicap myself further just to have to come back to the buff ~40s later if I don't want to risk it stolen or them bitching they "need blue".) But most of the time it's just people telling me "keep". And when I play Gragas he's broken so with a well-timed gank we get to take the enemy blue too. Edit: now that I think about it, when I feel like I can do without blue (Viktor and Ori really benefit from it but I'm not gonna shove and roam if I get pressured by their jungler, and if the enemy mid eats a ton of poke my reasoning is I won't need blue to kill him/force him back, so I pass on 2nd pretty often) or my jungler needs it more, I type "keep it", but every other mid just types "take" instead. Show the differing stance.  | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
I'm not going to waste my time resetting blue and coming back later or tanking it just so you can get your extra 20 gold | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21243 Posts
-Mid is recalling to base with no HP as jungle pings blue so jungle just takes it -Mid already has blue -Mid and jungle are challenging enemy blue -Jungle pings blue but mid never comes (so mid deciding jungle should just take it) -etc. So you're either lying through your teeth, or there are circumstances you chose to obscure to make your point, or you just happened upon the one in a hundred game where both junglers took blue for no reason. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
anyway im done arguing with somebody whos so delusional to the point he thinks its correct to give 2nd blue to yasuo over amumu and adding retarded arguments kr/cn>eu because of that is not for my nerves i will just get myself banned, live in your own world im out | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21243 Posts
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
Alot of players have the notion that certain things belong to certain positions. "My lane" / "my blue" / "my farm". This concept of ownership a) does not apply in any sense and b) is a terribly suboptimal way of playing. This often leads to players not pushing the right lanes and taking suboptimal paths regarding proximity and positions of other players on the map. Also specifically bluebuff: There are midlaners who scale exceptionally well with the regen and cdr. But it is the midlaners responsability to make an effort so taking it does lead to a negative outcome. First off all the midlaner has to know when it comes up and play accordingly beforehand without losing too much CS, letting the opposing midlaner roam, taking turret damage, letting the jungler wait, leaving dragon open for too long and possibly other things. The junglers responsability is to do a pathing and objective control which leads to the best outcome. When it comes to blue it is sometimes better to gank the opposing mid beforehand so both can shove the lane before transfering blue. If such thing is not possible or if the midlaner is not scaling that well with blue then it is often better to not transfer it and use it in a different manner. For example alot of junglers can take dragon quicker or clear the jungle quicker after taking blue. When the jungler is the main initiatior with a carry toplaner then taking blue is probably optimal too because the team relies on the jungler to survive through poke and initiation. There are all sorts of considerations and "who is entitled to blue" or "blue belongs to X" is certainly not one of them. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On May 20 2015 23:44 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: It's optimal for mid to always get 2nd blue, which is why you see it in every single pro game. I think in general, solo queue players in CN/KR are more avid followers of the ESPORTS aspect of League of Legends compared to NA/EU, which leads to a disconnect in attitude. CN/KR solo queue tends to mimic pro games much more closely than NA/EU. You're 100% trolling, right? Just in case you aren't 17:55 (bengi doesn't even play mana jungler LOL) is 1 counterexample enough against your "always" statement? On May 21 2015 00:37 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Again, my original point was that it is generally accepted that MID decides who gets blue in KR/CN, whereas in NA/EU jungle decides. So Ezhoon decided for whatever reason he didn't need blue. I highly doubt Bang decided to take blue against Ezhoon's wishes. yeah, and your subsequent statement was that it's always optimal for mid to get the blue, which is just retarded. | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21243 Posts
On May 21 2015 00:44 Scip wrote: You're 100% trolling, right? Just in case you aren't https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5lmoO10_s0 17:55 (bengi doesn't even play mana jungler LOL) is 1 counterexample enough against your "always" statement? yeah, and your subsequent statement was that it's always optimal for mid to get the blue, which is just retarded. "Always" was hyperbolic (big sorry?) and I further clarified it to "nearly 100%". For whatever reason the team decided Bang should get that blue, and Ezhoon acquiesced to it. Bang didn't unilaterally decide to take blue, which is what happens in solo queue far too often. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On May 20 2015 23:06 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Which is how the game should be played, and goes t omy point of why CN/KR > EU/NA. If Yasuo and Katarina were among the most played middle laners then it wouldn't be "nearly 100%" because giving Yasuo and Katarina blue buff is almost always just stupid. If you're right then EU/NA have a point over CN/KR because they understand blue buff doesn't just "belong to the middle laner". | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On May 21 2015 01:01 Scip wrote: Of course he didn't unilaterally decide to take the blue LOL, it's a fucking tournament game. It's "nearly 100%" (stretching the definition of nearly here) only because everyone and their mother plays fucking Nunu and Gragas and Rek'Sai jungle who can't do shit with blue buff anyway and almost all the middle laners are mana hungry bitches. If Yasuo and Katarina were among the most played middle laners then it wouldn't be "nearly 100%" because giving Yasuo and Katarina blue buff is almost always just stupid. You don't get it.You need to just copy what the better people are doing without any brain usage. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On May 21 2015 00:54 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: "Always" was hyperbolic (big sorry?) and I further clarified it to "nearly 100%". For whatever reason the team decided Bang should get that blue, and Ezhoon acquiesced to it. Bang didn't unilaterally decide to take blue, which is what happens in solo queue far too often. that's speculation LOL your argument is weak cheep | ||
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SagaZ
France3460 Posts
he inspired many junglers with his way, free yourself from the laners oppression no hero like him has ever appeared in asian country because the flame shield and the ego required to do this is not compatible with their genetics and average small size. praise the 9 | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
 User was warned for this post | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21243 Posts
On May 21 2015 01:01 Scip wrote: Of course he didn't unilaterally decide to take the blue LOL, it's a fucking tournament game. It's "nearly 100%" (stretching the definition of nearly here) only because everyone and their mother plays fucking Nunu and Gragas and Rek'Sai jungle who can't do shit with blue buff anyway and almost all the middle laners are mana hungry bitches. If Yasuo and Katarina were among the most played middle laners then it wouldn't be "nearly 100%" because giving Yasuo and Katarina blue buff is almost always just stupid. If you're right then EU/NA have a point over CN/KR because they understand blue buff doesn't just "belong to the middle laner". I'm pretty sure Yasuo and Katarina are not the most played champs in any case so your point is moot. On May 21 2015 01:04 SagaZ wrote: the best and most successful NA soloqueue jungler takes every blue on respawn he inspired many junglers with his way, free yourself from the laners oppression no hero like him has ever appeared in asian country because the flame shield and the ego required to do this is not compatible with their genetics and average small size. praise the 9 True. On May 21 2015 01:03 Slayer91 wrote: that's speculation LOL your argument is weak cheep Are you claiming the opposite? You're not allowed to call an argument weak unless you can propose a stronger alternative. To clarify- are you taking the position of "Bang unilaterally decided to take blue"? | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
1. Is my Mid laner a person that can benefit from blue buff (increased mana/energy regen, CDR, etc.)? 2. Is the lane in his/her favor, even (based on KDA, items, and CS score), or are they in a position to win a 1v1 to catch back up if they are slightly behind (assuming I don't gank their lane or am elsewhere when they go in for the kill)? 3. Do they ask for it, or reply when I ping it and ask in chat if they would like it in a timely fashion (if I feel that #1 and 2 are answered with a 'yes' and I'm on a jungler that isn't as mana hungry as others)? If all 3 of the above are 'yes' I pass it over. If any of the 3 are a 'no' I take it for myself and look to make a play on the map (usually by using the increased CDR for an engage with my ulti or skills). After that I repeat the process every time blue buff is up. Usually what happens (probably around 60% of the time) is I pass the second blue buff over and the mid uses the mana regen and CDR to get a kill or shove the lane in to put pressure on mid turret while I roam bot/top for ganks or get dragon. | ||
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