EPT+ Show Spoiler +
nerf to pawn, despite losing lane to faker's lb?
[Patch 5.9] Ashe Rework General Discussion - Page 2
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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General_Winter
United States719 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On May 14 2015 05:33 Slayer91 wrote: "Answer is still no" -After his Q does 50% more damage than it did before -After his Q which he needs to spam in lane mosts 50% more mana. -After the cinderhulk smite duration is 50% less -After you've played how many games in both top and jungle hecarim this patch? How are you so sure? Also don't know what you're talking about mini nerfs huge buffs for olaf and xin zhao I don't play olaf but scip does and I'm starting to get decent at xin It's my general impression, take it with a grain of salt. If I end up being wrong, I will be sure to admit it. My basis of why Hec is better Top than Jungle (on a pro level) is that while he has good clear speed (will only improve with 5.9) but he has minimal gank presence compared to the likes of Rek, Sej, Gragas, etc. E is his only gank assist ability that isn't purely damage and has to be used in a particular flank position to make it beneficial. Top Hec on the other hand will always end up with more farm than Jungle Hec. And I think we've all see what Hec can do with the appropriate items thanks to lane farm. Edit: Mini nerfs on Annie, Kalista, Morg, Riven, etc. They all seem like Riot wants to nerf those champs with a soft hand approach. Am I wrong here? I realize other champs got buffs/bug fixes but just going down the patch notes, the small nerfs stood out more. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On May 14 2015 05:48 wei2coolman wrote: MSI spoilers: + Show Spoiler + nerf to pawn, despite losing lane to faker's lb? if you are maxing W (mid) it only effects you for like 3 levels | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On May 14 2015 05:50 Slusher wrote: if you are maxing W (mid) it only effects you for like 3 levels Except you don't max W, you only get like 2-3 points, then Q max afterwords. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On May 14 2015 05:49 NeoIllusions wrote: Edit: Mini nerfs on Annie, Kalista, Morg, Riven, etc. They all seem like Riot wants to nerf those champs with a soft hand approach. Am I wrong here? I realize other champs got buffs/bug fixes but just going down the patch notes, the small nerfs stood out more. I dunno if I'd consider a 50 range nerf to be "soft" though... | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23460 Posts
On May 14 2015 05:49 NeoIllusions wrote: It's my general impression, take it with a grain of salt. If I end up being wrong, I will be sure to admit it. My basis of why Hec is better Top than Jungle (on a pro level) is that while he has good clear speed (will only improve with 5.9) but he has minimal gank presence compared to the likes of Rek, Sej, Gragas, etc. E is his only gank assist ability that isn't purely damage and has to be used in a particular flank position to make it beneficial. Top Hec on the other hand will always end up with more farm than Jungle Hec. And I think we've all see what Hec can do with the appropriate items thanks to lane farm. Edit: Mini nerfs on Annie, Kalista, Morg, Riven, etc. They all seem like Riot wants to nerf those champs with a soft hand approach. Am I wrong here? I realize other champs got buffs/bug fixes but just going down the patch notes, the small nerfs stood out more. Rek'sai sejuani and gragas are all 100% picked/banned champs and clearly its a balance issue rather than hecarim being a weak jungler. Hecarims ganks really arent weak at all. He has a zoom into lane and has a huge range CC on top of that. Top farm depends on winning lane unless you could just auto clear a wave and go farm golems with smite or something oh wait. junglers really arent underfarmed much at all I wouldn't say they are much more underfarmed than jungles especially if they have to TP a lot or lane swap. The difference between winning a lane and losing a lane is pretty huge and those nerfs are quite significant. Cinderhulk damage nerf in lane as well as the smite nerf, nerf to mana costs, these could easily change the snowball the other way. Kalista nerf was the most needed, riven is so snowbally that mostly only people with a lot of experience with her play her but she is pretty cancerous when she shows up. | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On May 14 2015 05:55 Ryuu314 wrote: I dunno if I'd consider a 50 range nerf to be "soft" though... Nerfing auto range of all things is somewhat brow raising imo. I mean, like really? But yeah, 50 range is going to hurt. poor Annie Bot. On May 14 2015 05:57 Slayer91 wrote: Rek'sai sejuani and gragas are all 100% picked/banned champs and clearly its a balance issue rather than hecarim being a weak jungler. Hecarims ganks really arent weak at all. He has a zoom into lane and has a huge range CC on top of that. Top farm depends on winning lane unless you could just auto clear a wave and go farm golems with smite or something oh wait. junglers really arent underfarmed much at all I wouldn't say they are much more underfarmed than jungles especially if they have to TP a lot or lane swap. Well, like I said, my initial comment was in reference to competitive play. 5.9 isn't going to suddenly make Jungle Hec a thing because his Q does more damage. That said, if you like Hec enough to play him outside of Top, he's definitely viable (even more viable now?) as a Jungler. Was talking about Hec's gank presence pre-6. With QWE, only one skill that does anything utility-like. That said, I still play WW fairly frequently and he has an even worse pre-6 presence than Hec. But he wins me games mid/late just because of hard CC on enemy carries. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23460 Posts
On May 14 2015 06:03 NeoIllusions wrote: Nerfing auto range of all things is somewhat brow raising imo. I mean, like really? But yeah, 50 range is going to hurt. poor Annie Bot. Well, like I said, my initial comment was in reference to competitive play. 5.9 isn't going to suddenly make Jungle Hec a thing because his Q does more damage. That said, if you like Hec enough to play him outside of Top, he's definitely viable (even more viable now?) as a Jungler. Was talking about Hec's gank presence pre-6. With QWE, only one skill that does anything utility-like. That said, I still play WW fairly frequently and he has an even worse pre-6 presence than Hec. But he wins me games mid/late just because of hard CC on enemy carries. Well sejuani actually has meh ganks pre 6 as well. In any case its a dumb argument. There's no point buffing any junglers at all because people will just play sej/gragas/reksai? In fact you shouldn't even treat jungle and top laner hecarim as the same champ, because they are competing with different sets of champs. The question isn't "Is it better to play top or jungle hecarim" the question is "is he the best pick for the situation for either of those roles?" It's perfectly possibly he is picked for both top lane and jungle, only top, only jungle, or neither, depending on how the buffs/nerf sit. It's very rarely the case that you pick a champion specifically because he's the only one who can do something and you want him in your team. 99% of the time you compare him with the other people strong in that position. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
Other than that, I agree with your points. My initial comment about Hec was knee-jerky and rather lackluster. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23460 Posts
I'm not saying she's weak, just compared to the top of the pile lee sins jarvans reksais or whatever its purely because her Q feels like its too easy to dodge or get out of range or something maybe its the lack of damage actually | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
http://na.op.gg/match/observer/id=1822571091 http://na.op.gg/match/observer/id=1822571450 | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
Is Neo still a buster? edit: KENNEN? change me to Ashe ASAP | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On May 14 2015 06:41 HazMat wrote: We moved sites? wtf is this horseshit. Is Neo still a buster? Sup quitter. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On May 14 2015 06:41 HazMat wrote: We moved sites? wtf is this horseshit. Is Neo still a buster? edit: KENNEN? change me to Ashe ASAP Wow you've been gone a while. | ||
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