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On April 29 2015 09:58 OhTwoMise wrote:
These Ashe changes make me very sad. I've always felt she was one of the better champions in the game in terms of design. She's got a ton of legacy design features that are slowly being phased out of the game, so I supposed I shouldn't be too optimistic, particularly given Tristana just followed a pretty similar trajectory and wound up in a much less interesting place if not an outright worse one.
What's even more baffling to me is that she seems to be doing very well in terms of pick- and winrate at all levels below pro. And I can't imagine this update solves any of her problems on the pro scene, which as far as I can tell are primarily related to Crucible.
But what aspects of her kit actually got removed?
Her old passive which was completely nonexistant past lvl 1 brush cheese.
She now has the slow permanently.
Volley is a bit different but has basically the same functionality.
E vision is still there.
R is identical.
So the only "legacy feature" that she lost was the gold generation....which was 600 gold at 200cs...basically a completely worthless noob trap.
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On April 29 2015 10:52 Nemireck wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 10:45 Slusher wrote:On April 29 2015 10:15 Gahlo wrote:On April 29 2015 09:55 Slusher wrote:
E magic shred isn't new But it's better now. seeing as void staff fits in his old build I would contend it's a nerf, also it's a nerf to his lane phase, which is already nerfed by the fact that Q is a skillshot. Except now you can farm in losing match ups instead of standing under the turret for 30 minutes waiting for your power spike to kick in. Also, you can charge tear without targets now, so that's a thing.
Losing matchups? Ryze was fairly lane dominant early because of Q and the safety of W. When not totally weak it is basically Irelia who could punish him, but only if she was a better player. I feel like this is part of the fundamental misunderstanding of the old Ryze. He was strong in lane, but bad waveclear, bad in laneswaps, and couldn't really teamfight for a long time. The Q change means he is now lane-weak, bad in laneswaps, with bad waveclear, and it doesn't really seem like his early teamfighting is stronger.
In other words, new Ryze has to be even more ridiculous than old Ryze lategame to be balanced.
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On April 29 2015 11:14 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 10:30 Sonnington wrote:On April 29 2015 10:15 Gahlo wrote:On April 29 2015 09:55 Slusher wrote:
E magic shred isn't new But it's better now. I'm not so sure it's better now. Looks like a nerf overall. -12/15/18/21/24 magic resistance ⇒ -8/9/10/11/12 percent magic resistance A target would need 150mr before a level 1 E would shred as much as it would prerework. While at level 5 E will need 200mr. So I guess it's a buff against extremely high MR enemies and a nerf to low MR enemies. but Show nested quote +Unleashes an orb that deals damage and reduces the Magic Resist of targets hit by a percentage, stacking up to 3 times. seems to imply that each returning bolt stacks more MR reduction? Which could be fairly sick.
Hopefully the percentage pen from his E stacks additatively with itself.
If so, that's 35%/43.8%/50.6%/58.4% pen at 0/1/2/3 stacks with void staff.
If not, then it's 35%/43.8%/49.664%/55.70432%. Which is actually so similar that I guess it doesn't really matter.
edit: actually I hate ryze so hopefully -> hopefully not
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On April 29 2015 11:18 Sonnington wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 11:14 sob3k wrote:On April 29 2015 10:30 Sonnington wrote:On April 29 2015 10:15 Gahlo wrote:On April 29 2015 09:55 Slusher wrote:
E magic shred isn't new But it's better now. I'm not so sure it's better now. Looks like a nerf overall. -12/15/18/21/24 magic resistance ⇒ -8/9/10/11/12 percent magic resistance A target would need 150mr before a level 1 E would shred as much as it would prerework. While at level 5 E will need 200mr. So I guess it's a buff against extremely high MR enemies and a nerf to low MR enemies. but Unleashes an orb that deals damage and reduces the Magic Resist of targets hit by a percentage, stacking up to 3 times. seems to imply that each returning bolt stacks more MR reduction? Which could be fairly sick. OH! That changes things a bit. So in a duel with no minions around he'll shred quite a bit more MR.
Thats not how it works, you want minions around. Watch the skill video. It starts at your target, splits out to secondaries, then each secondary returns to the original.
On April 29 2015 11:20 Slusher wrote:
it did that before
yeah, this version will be way more reliable though. And better vs tanks. Plus has the potential to shred an entire team and 3 stack the primary target.
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the ashe changes are suspect until the numbers are seen. getting rid of ashe's upfront guaranteed burst with shyv + passive + IE proc + arrow damage + volley damage and lowering the damage on volley as well....well the new passive better be damn good in terms of sustained damage. because as we all know burst > sustained so simply replacing it with the latter will inherently make her weaker. Imagine riot taking that into account?
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Im mostly just worried about her laning. It seems they totally wrecked volly as a lane skill, and she got nothing else to really compensate. Her laning isn't spectacular now and is totally dependent on that skill, it won't matter how utility-riffic she is after the rework if she never makes it out of lane.
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On April 29 2015 10:30 Sonnington wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 10:15 Gahlo wrote:On April 29 2015 09:55 Slusher wrote:
E magic shred isn't new But it's better now. I'm not so sure it's better now. Looks like a nerf overall. -12/15/18/21/24 magic resistance ⇒ -8/9/10/11/12 percent magic resistance A target would need 150mr before a level 1 E would shred as much as it would prerework. While at level 5 E will need 200mr. So I guess it's a buff against extremely high MR enemies and a nerf to low MR enemies.
The new MR shred stacks up to 3 times, maxing out at 24/27/30/33/36%. That beats out the single stacking flat pen at 50/55.5/60/63.63/66.6MR.
From the description, it sounds like the main target gets 2 stacks from the initial cast. The cooldown is going down to 7 seconds. After an initial buy of 10% CDR and CDR form his ult, we're looking at a 4.2 second CD, not taking any effect from his passive into the equation.
New Ryze is going to punch holes through everything.
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From surrender at 20 it seems the new passive is slightly better than having no crit at all, on average. It gives her a flat 10% total AD boost that stacks additively with the crit*crrt damage multiplier.
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So on the topic of Ryze, I had a question. Particularly, how does one lane against him when playing a melee bruiser?
I was playing Darius against Ryze and I had a super rough time in lane. I think I gave him way too much respect early on in lane, but it felt like he did a TON of damage. Like he started mana crystal and some health potions and it really felt like he hit like a truck.
This might be a moot question given the Ryze rework is just around the corner (or already here) but I was wondering if you guys had some general tips.
Thanks in advance!
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LUX SKIN EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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On April 29 2015 13:03 Frudgey wrote:
So on the topic of Ryze, I had a question. Particularly, how does one lane against him when playing a melee bruiser?
I was playing Darius against Ryze and I had a super rough time in lane. I think I gave him way too much respect early on in lane, but it felt like he did a TON of damage. Like he started mana crystal and some health potions and it really felt like he hit like a truck.
This might be a moot question given the Ryze rework is just around the corner (or already here) but I was wondering if you guys had some general tips.
Thanks in advance!
It takes a while for current Ryze to become a consistent damage threat. He's super weak 1-3 as long as you have some way to close a gap(which includes apprehend.) After asserting dominance early, he takes a really long time to become relevant.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
Sorry but this Star Guardian Lux model looks crap.
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On April 29 2015 13:17 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 13:03 Frudgey wrote:
So on the topic of Ryze, I had a question. Particularly, how does one lane against him when playing a melee bruiser?
I was playing Darius against Ryze and I had a super rough time in lane. I think I gave him way too much respect early on in lane, but it felt like he did a TON of damage. Like he started mana crystal and some health potions and it really felt like he hit like a truck.
This might be a moot question given the Ryze rework is just around the corner (or already here) but I was wondering if you guys had some general tips.
Thanks in advance! It takes a while for current Ryze to become a consistent damage threat. He's super weak 1-3 as long as you have some way to close a gap(which includes apprehend.) After asserting dominance early, he takes a really long time to become relevant.
I mean, this is true because Ryze is incredibly neutered at this point. But it wasn't when he was good.
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Ashe looks like a huuge hypercarry though if she can get any support late game. Highest crit scaling in the game with passive,, 60% attack speed steroid + undetermined AD steroid on Q, perma slow with no mana requirements, as well as her arrow initiate.
Fuck juggermaw, give me a Juggerashe. Ashe with like Lulu/Ori+Morg will be a monster.
Her laning looks like trash though.
That being said, Flurry auto's with new BC and BtorK will smash face. I honestly would buy BC over LW on her. you're basically paying 700 gold for 400 HP and 20% cdr on Ashe cuz in any fight you'll have that flurry Q up all fight long, giving you an instant 6x stacks giving you maxed armor shreds.
Instead of oldschool IE->Shiv->LW, ashe probably gets pretty sick mileage out of BtorK->BC->IE. Maybe even picking up the Cloak before you finish BC; BtorK->Phage->Cloak->BC
All the passive on-hits from Flurry plus the onhit lifesteal... wow. Then you remember she has big jinx style movespeed bursts from the phage passive, huge range, and the 20 cdr on arrow with the perma slow... I think late game ashe might be the hardest carry in the game in this form.
Juggerashe will even have sick initiation.
EDIT: RiotRepertoir saying ashes Q has a total AD ratio of 1.35 in bonus damage. Wow. And they can crit. Every auto in a teamfight is 2.35 TADxCrit Modifier + 6xBtorK passive . That is actually huuuge. Lategame you are probably doing 1200-1500 per auto from 600 range depending on their MR and total HP... and you have arrow.
http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/6BBcWPLy-ashe-update-feedback-thread
EDIT2: I'm an idiot, didn't reads. Still get full BC stacks right away.
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On April 29 2015 14:54 TheHumanSensation wrote:I feel like a lot of posts about Ashe here only read one of the two posts about the rework. http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/04/428-pbe.htmlThis link has more details, like numbers and that the Q extra shots don't apply on-hit effects.
Huh.
Well, i still think she will be strong with items. Not as strong as I thought before with 6x Btork procs, but still pretty potent I'd say.
Her damage will be in line with 6 item Jinx/Kog.
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On April 29 2015 14:03 739 wrote:
Sorry but this Star Guardian Lux model looks crap.
Disagree.
+ Show Spoiler +
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I lke the idea of juggerashe. It seems plausible,
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On April 29 2015 15:19 cLutZ wrote:
I lke the idea of juggerashe. It seems plausible,
Yeah.
Just theorycrafting, but i think if you get the laneswap, and a decent amount of farm you probably just win the game. More flexible than juggermaw I think, you can actually start fights instead of having to play a poke comp until you get engaged upon.
Opens up room for more interesting mid picks, and I think gives you more room for error. Like Juggermaw you screw up your lulu / morg timings you just hard lose a fight, but with Ashe you can start a fight and potentially burst a kid before you need to worry about shields.
I think for example Juggerashe could run say Azir mid. Although, now that I think about it I think azir would be really sick in a Juggermaw comp too. Bad example. My point is though that you dont need a poke / disengage champion like Corki or Ahri. I'd feel comfortable with like Kassidin, Vladimir, Lissandra, even like an Urgot or Malzahar.
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Wait, if I'm reading Ashe's PBE notes right now, she can no longer crit? Only does bonus damage? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. interesting.
So based on the math there should be pretty high critchance+AD break point in which ashe finally does more DPS with her passive than she would if she just critted normally...
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EPT![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-IgBCHVQVGSM/VUBzFPvTmII/AAAAAAAAo7A/cPa8b9FYfK4/s1600/luxrecall.jpg)
