EPT[Patch 5.8] Ryze Rework General Discussion - Page 29
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On May 07 2015 07:25 ParadeofMadness wrote: I still havent broken my 100% lose rate on bard, in lane I feel I get outraded as his mana costs are unbelivable, like old anivia level and he is squishy as fuck. Maxing E second helps but yeah it still becomes trololololol becuase you lost lane so hard This is kind of how Bard should be though, right? If his power level is ever respectable in soloQ he will necessarily be totally OP in competitive because laneswaps make for better chime gathering, coms make for better magical journey usage, and his ult has a high chance of turning teamfights for his team, or against his team, which would be lessened with good communication. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On May 07 2015 07:25 ParadeofMadness wrote: I still havent broken my 100% lose rate on bard, in lane I feel I get outraded as his mana costs are unbelivable, like old anivia level and he is squishy as fuck. Maxing E second helps but yeah it still becomes trololololol becuase you lost lane so hard You shouldn't really expect to win lane as bard without a good gank. You just try to keep it pretty even. His Q is much easier to use as a disengage than an engage, and you can win trades like this. I rarely win lane and have a great winrate. Honestly I mostly just use meep auto in lane for the gold generation and to allow you AD a bit of room, if you win a trade thats just extra nice. You win later because you have absolutely absurd utility, mostly from picking people. If you can catch somone out alone you can ping and ult them, and your team can walk over from like 4000 range and instagib them the second it wears off. Its absolutely broken. This and you give really really great vision control because you are almost impossible to catch with chime speed boost and E. You can waltz all over their jungle and make sure your team is always positioned correctly. Also you wreck dragon fights, hit half their team with ult and kill the other, and E through the back of the pit. I also advise you build like full tank with FH etc. Bard damage scaling is worthless. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On May 07 2015 08:05 wei2coolman wrote: IMO Bard's real strength is his level 1, you should almost always be looking to blow your charges of meeps (as you get around 2 before level 2) at level 1, super powerful imo. well, comparatively, but you still aren't going to get much done. Its like a single won trade. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On May 07 2015 09:14 sob3k wrote: well, comparatively, but you still aren't going to get much done. Its like a single won trade. If you shove for early level 2 in conjunction, you can deal with his power trough in levels 2-5 off of a strong level 1 trade. It's a sort of risky way to play, but it's similar to how you play vayne out in lane in solo queue, where you're fairly aggressive in the early levels to prevent getting shat on in lane in the later levels. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
I get that she's popular because of "outplay" and "waifu" reasons, but I don't think I've seen her on any high ELO streams outside of boxbox, and that's because he's a (mostly) one-trick champion. | ||
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35165 Posts
On May 07 2015 10:40 Caiada wrote: She's got a 55% winrate and a 15% pickrate at the high-plat/diamond level. The nerfs are also insanely minor, so. The Wind Slash nerf is bigger than you think. | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
On May 07 2015 10:40 Caiada wrote: She's got a 55% winrate and a 15% pickrate at the high-plat/diamond level. The nerfs are also insanely minor, so. They seem minor, but they aren't. The only reason she can live/trade (after they gutted her HP/5) is due to her insane mobility and high base move speed. The missile speed change seems minor but now people will have more time to react and flash away or escape on Thresh lantern or Bard tunnel or their own dash/move skill. Like for me I don't play her anymore top because she simply can't kill anyone pre-6 without ignite. And if you go flash/ignite you are forced into split push mode all game and that's not the strongest thing right now in League of Tanks/Dive. Not to mention that after a certain point, unless she is insanely ahead, has 6 items, or is CDR build, she won't be able to split push against a dedicated tank. For me, I think the build path on her now has to be Hydra (for waveclear and HP regen) > BC (for the CDR, a tiny bit of tankiness, and the armor shred) > Lucidity (with 5% masteries and BC this gets her 40% CDR) > BT (the shield, lifesteal and flat AD is good) > LW (because armor pen is needed) > GA (to be able to dive and still be useful after the enemy blows you up). | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
i got 1200 in my first | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
On May 07 2015 10:52 kongoline wrote: because she clearly needs nerfs lol, shes op in soloQ and not played in competitive only because of lane swaps She's OP in solo Q simply because of one-trick champion players that get wins off her because literally on one remembers how to play against Riven and they see so similar champions in top nowadays that they know how to outplay the opponent. That by itself gets you to high Plat, low Diamond elo, which is where most of her wins come from. If they want to nerf Riven, the nerf to Wind Slash is enough, no need to remove 5 movespeed. They could also tweak her DPS a bit (adjust her AD ratios on Q a bit). | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TjQ1Ed5.png) | ||
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Gahlo
United States35165 Posts
On May 07 2015 10:52 kongoline wrote: because she clearly needs nerfs lol, shes op in soloQ and not played in competitive only because of lane swaps And Exhaust, armor stacking because competitive tops know they most likely aren't the carry, because any time she will be meta and a pro puts in the effort to play her at a high enough level she'll just be banned anyway, people actually peeling. Riven has a ton of weaknesses in organized play. | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
On May 07 2015 11:01 Gahlo wrote: And Exhaust, armor stacking because competitive tops know they most likely aren't the carry, because any time she will be meta and a pro puts in the effort to play her at a high enough level she'll just be banned anyway, people actually peeling. Riven has a ton of weaknesses in organized play. I think the last time Riven saw competitive play it was back in season 3 (specifically Worlds) when Faker took her mid as a counter to Zed mid (because Zed was insanely OP back then, and is just merely ok to semi-op right now due to meta shifts). | ||
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Gahlo
United States35165 Posts
On May 07 2015 11:03 Kinie wrote: I think the last time Riven saw competitive play it was back in season 3 (specifically Worlds) when Faker took her mid as a counter to Zed mid (because Zed was insanely OP back then, and is just merely ok to semi-op right now due to meta shifts). Last time she was used well, anyway. There was those few games where Shook played her in jungle last year because Alliance would roll people anyway, regardless of the standard bruiser build being put on her, and a Korean jungler(can't remember who) that build her full tank because... cc? idk. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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