EPTOn April 15 2015 06:39 Mensol wrote:
some hilarious stuff happening on Tabzz's stream hahahahahaha
some hilarious stuff happening on Tabzz's stream hahahahahaha
Bet it isn't as good as what happened on Dexter's.
[Patch 5.7] More Executes General Discussion - Page 23
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
Bet it isn't as good as what happened on Dexter's. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
I tried Corki again. Def. will take something else to go alongside Graves and try to do more stuff when playing AD, Valkyrie is way too clunky for me to use, I hate the start-up (everytime I expect it to cast instantly, everytime it takes half a second and I get cc'd in the meantime), and I hate the pause after landing too (can't queue a cast immediatly, I play as if I could, and my burst isn't enough/is too slow before they duck/Flash/kill me/whatev'). It's me being bad, but it doesn't matter, he feels so clunky and unsatisfying I just wouldn't enjoy grinding him. Maybe I'll go Cait or something. Dash-less carries are out of the picture (otherwise I'm fodder whenever Thresh/Malph/Rengar/etc. is picked, well I'm still fodder to a Rengar who got ahead anyway), Vayne I don't have the mechanics and her lack of reach annoys me, Kalista has reach but same mechanics issue, Tristana has no reach either and I dislike how W works as a kiting tool (fine for getting away, but so easy to misjudge and jump too far), also dps too clunky (people always seem to run away when I E them, plus the animation is super long and usually if I use it at max range they run back to my frontline/their backline before I can auto), not sure about Lucian, I should try him some more too, and then there's Cait but I gotta get ahead and play properly. On the other hand that's a way to force me to learn to abuse lane and position better. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On April 15 2015 06:43 wei2coolman wrote: So I'm thinking about the sion game I played 2 days ago, and what is a good offensive item on him? Cuz this is literally how Sion plays out for me in top lane. I split even or slightly ahead in lane. I get 2-3 defensive items + boots. I'm pretty much unkillable in teamfights, but also easily ignored, what do I get as a singular offensive item? I ended up getting tiamat as a way to try and split push a bit harder, hopefully drawing more mappressure with stronger aoe clear, but it didn't fix the fact that I didn't do much in teamfights aside from ulti, and walking around smacking people for 2 health with autos.... :/ Sion already instaclears with QE, so there is no reason to get tiamat. LW is probably the best single offensive, although I haven't done the math. Its too bad he does a lot of magic damage, but his base and ratio on Q is very large and LW is almost always the best single offensive item on tanks number wise, since he doesn't need any CC or clear help. You could go Fmallet, but its less offensive most of the time than defensive. It does turn his passive into a serious damage threat that can ruin nearly anyone including tanks (10% max health damage son). Icebourne gauntlet is something I've considered but its just too expensive in my experience. I've never really had an issue with being ignored in teamfights, you output a shitton of CC as sion and can get multiple 2 second knockups if you use them to peel and are really ignored. Just use it on top of whoever the enemy team is diving, they either take a massive knockup, run away (mission accomplished), or waste an interrupt on you. If you are still losing fight your team is just probably way too far behind. | ||
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Sonnington
United States1107 Posts
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Frudgey
Canada3367 Posts
Do people ever buy Frozen Mallet ever, for any reason? I just haven't seen it used (or talked about) in like forever. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On April 15 2015 07:29 Frudgey wrote: Okay serious question. Do people ever buy Frozen Mallet ever, for any reason? I just haven't seen it used (or talked about) in like forever. No they don't, but they should: I just wanted to get this out there now that all this stuff about tanky itemization is coming up. Nobody buys Frozen motherfuckin Mallet. Lets take a look at some defensive items. 1. Warmogs 800hp = 2133g % regen 85% efficient just hard stats That regen is not worth shit, it takes far too long to go up to 3%. Its just bad. Actually all regen isn't worth much. Warmogs is crap, we all knew that. 2. Randuins 500 health = 1333g 70 armor = 1400g slow nova 96% efficient just hard stats 3. Spirit Visage 400 health = 1066.6g 55 magic resist = 1100g 10% cooldown reduction = 316.6g heal boost 90% hard stat efficiency 4. Sunfire 450 health = 1200g 45 armor = 900g burn 80% hard stat efficiency Popular item, you have to value the burn quite a bit to make it worth, but it is quite a bit of DPS. 5. Righteous Glory 650 health = 1733g 300 mana = ? speed boost This item is stacked with both mana and health regen. How much is 300 mana worth? Without it the item is only 70% hard stat efficient. So you better use that mana (and active). To look at mana value you can compare this item to Frozen Heart: 6. Frozen Heart: 100 armor = 2000g 400 mana = ? 20% cooldown reduction = 633g 15% negative AS aura = a negative dagger (450g) for each enemy So even if we value 400 mana at ZERO, AND ignore the aura then Fheart is at 100% efficiency. Now thats a great defensive item. So If we are just looking for combat stats then Fmallet actually looks pretty damn good. Fmallet is 700HP 30AD These are pretty much the hardest of hard stats. Everyone wants these. For the cost this is already at 90% efficiency. Thats pretty damn good for a defensive item. And then we have the passive effect which is a 40% slow on EVERY auto. That is CRAZY POWERFUL. Ashe has 35% slow for level FIVE Q, and it cost mana, and takes an entire ability slot. Imma build this shit all day long if I need HP. The addition of Cinderhulk also boost all HP value by 25% for maximum OP synergy, making it even more viable. TLDR: Frozen mallet is actually good, def better tham warmogs. Frozen heart is stupid good. Frozen=good | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
On April 15 2015 07:36 Ketara wrote: Not sure who wrote that wall of text but they forgot that the best HP item is Face of the Mountain. Exactly. Follow the church of howard and build FotM on everything remotely tanky. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On April 15 2015 07:36 Ketara wrote: Not sure who wrote that wall of text but they forgot that the best HP item is Face of the Mountain. funny way to spell cinderhulk | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Good point. Second best HP item. | ||
Harem
United States11393 Posts
On April 15 2015 07:29 Frudgey wrote: Okay serious question. Do people ever buy Frozen Mallet ever, for any reason? I just haven't seen it used (or talked about) in like forever. It works great on Gnar and yes people do buy it on him. http://www.probuilds.net/champions/Gnar | ||
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Sonnington
United States1107 Posts
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Fildun
Netherlands4124 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On April 15 2015 07:59 Fildun wrote: Ehh, in every situation where you think you want FM you probably want Randuins though. Randuins is sick good, plus it's active is just as useful as FM passive. FotM isn't comparable though. Randuins offers a good chunk of armor, FM should just be considered if you just need giant health pool. I still think Warmog ability to allow your tank to continue applying map pressure after a teamfight is extremely undervalued. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On April 15 2015 07:59 Fildun wrote: Ehh, in every situation where you think you want FM you probably want Randuins though. Randuins is sick good, plus it's active is just as useful as FM passive. Why not both?... On April 15 2015 08:01 wei2coolman wrote: I still think Warmog ability to allow your tank to continue applying map pressure after a teamfight is extremely undervalued. Well, You win teamfight: Enemy is dead, you have free map. You lose teamfight: You are dead. You lose but escape as the tank: You can't really do anything but farm, not like you can tower dive solo or do dragon. Its gonna take too long and warmogs doesn't give that much regen. They lose and someone escapes: maybe you can push something more with regen along with your carries that they would be scared to do without you. Thats a pretty niche win-more situation to base an entire defensive item purchase on over other options. Not to mention that unless you are garen the regen really isn't that amazing, it takes quite a while to get back to health if you just came out of a teamfight and are really low. It takes well over 80 seconds to get 50% of your HP back, respawn aint that long. | ||
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On April 15 2015 07:14 Alaric wrote: Sion's W does pretty good dps in long fights. If you can hit a champion with your E, it's also a guaranteed Q knock-up unless they Flash/dash (and it reduces armour by 20% on top of the slow so it's still a decent peeling tool). I tried Corki again. Def. will take something else to go alongside Graves and try to do more stuff when playing AD, Valkyrie is way too clunky for me to use, I hate the start-up (everytime I expect it to cast instantly, everytime it takes half a second and I get cc'd in the meantime), and I hate the pause after landing too (can't queue a cast immediatly, I play as if I could, and my burst isn't enough/is too slow before they duck/Flash/kill me/whatev'). It's me being bad, but it doesn't matter, he feels so clunky and unsatisfying I just wouldn't enjoy grinding him. Maybe I'll go Cait or something. Dash-less carries are out of the picture (otherwise I'm fodder whenever Thresh/Malph/Rengar/etc. is picked, well I'm still fodder to a Rengar who got ahead anyway), Vayne I don't have the mechanics and her lack of reach annoys me, Kalista has reach but same mechanics issue, Tristana has no reach either and I dislike how W works as a kiting tool (fine for getting away, but so easy to misjudge and jump too far), also dps too clunky (people always seem to run away when I E them, plus the animation is super long and usually if I use it at max range they run back to my frontline/their backline before I can auto), not sure about Lucian, I should try him some more too, and then there's Cait but I gotta get ahead and play properly. On the other hand that's a way to force me to learn to abuse lane and position better. Learning to play Cait properly IS a great way to learn how to Auto-harass during laning phase, except with training wheels, because dat range. Gotta really focus on hitting your CS though, because if you aren't leaving lane 20-40 CS ahead, you're behind. Lucian is probably a great pick since you already play Graves. I feel they have some similarities in how they play. | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On April 15 2015 07:36 Ketara wrote: Not sure who wrote that wall of text but they forgot that the best HP item is Face of the Mountain. Why is that? Is it because of the 10% max HP shield? | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Lets assume you have 3k total HP, which is probably the bare minimum for a tanky champion and it's likely more than that. And lets also assume you shield yourself. For 3300g, Frozen Mallet gives you: 700 HP 30 AD On Hit Slow For 2200g, Face of the Mountain gives you: 800 HP 100% HP Regen 10% CDR Gold passive AOE damage active If you really wanted 30 AD, you could buy 3 Longswords (or more realistically a Pickaxe) and still spend less than you would on Frozen Mallet. Is FMs slow worth more than 100 HP, 100% HP Regen, 10% CDR, gold for your team and a damage active? I really doubt it. And that comparison is being really unfair to FotM. It's got a fantastic build path, and you're more likely somewhere between 4 and 5k HP late game so instead of 100 HP more, it's 2-300 HP more. And you can shield other people. Think about all those Juggermaw comps if instead of just having Lulu and Janna to shield the Kogmaw, Nunu bought FotM after Cinderhulk for an additional 500 HP shield on the guy. Shit would be pretty broken. Face of the Mountain is blatantly overpowered and it's not really a discussion topic. Other big HP items simply do not compete, period. The only reason why there aren't 4-6 of them being built in every game is because pros haven't realized how overtuned the thing is. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On April 15 2015 08:20 GrandInquisitor wrote: Why is that? Is it because of the 10% max HP shield? Cuz, most tanks get upwards of 4k hp now at level 18. 10%max HP shield +500 hp = anywhere from 800~900 effective hp in a teamfight, for 2200 gold. All this with 10% cdr Not to mention the shield can be placed to whichever carry you want, instead. this is vs Warmogs which is 2500g for 800 hp. | ||
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