EPT[Patch 5.7] More Executes General Discussion - Page 24
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On April 15 2015 08:27 sob3k wrote: Well I agree its good but lets not pretend 300 of that hp doesn't only last 4 seconds every 60 seconds. Flat HP and Flat mana is only worth its weight if it's being used. So unless you're dying or closed to dying more than once every 60 seconds, FotM's active is good enough to considering it part of your healthpool. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
But they both fucking suck because of how overpowered Face of the Mountain is. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On April 15 2015 08:29 Ketara wrote: Basically, if you want to have a discussion on whether or not Frozen Mallet is better than Warmogs, here's the thing. FM probably is better than Warmogs. But they both fucking suck because of how overpowered Face of the Mountain is. or... or.... maybe single target slow is actually pretty good on some champion kits. stop making absolutist statements. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On April 15 2015 08:27 sob3k wrote: Well I agree its good but lets not pretend 300 of that hp doesn't only last 4 seconds every 60 seconds. Yeah because you totally get in a teamfight, use the shield, then get healed back to 100% HP and have a second teamfight more often than once every 60 seconds. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On April 15 2015 08:30 wei2coolman wrote: or... or.... maybe single target slow is actually pretty good on some champion kits. stop making absolutist statements. If you needed help closing on people you could literally buy FotM and either a Phage or a Cutlass for a similar price to Frozen Mallet. | ||
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On April 15 2015 08:31 Ketara wrote: If you needed help closing on people you could literally buy FotM and either a Phage or a Cutlass for a similar price to Frozen Mallet. cuz slot efficiency isn't a thing? | ||
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Gahlo
United States35130 Posts
On April 15 2015 08:25 Ketara wrote: Really don't think you guys understand how good Face of the Mountain is. Lets assume you have 3k total HP, which is probably the bare minimum for a tanky champion and it's likely more than that. And lets also assume you shield yourself. For 3300g, Frozen Mallet gives you: 700 HP 30 AD On Hit Slow For 2200g, Face of the Mountain gives you: 800 HP 100% HP Regen 10% CDR Gold passive AOE damage active If you really wanted 30 AD, you could buy 3 Longswords (or more realistically a Pickaxe) and still spend less than you would on Frozen Mallet. Is FMs slow worth more than 100 HP, 100% HP Regen, 10% CDR, gold for your team and a damage active? I really doubt it. And that comparison is being really unfair to FotM. It's got a fantastic build path, and you're more likely somewhere between 4 and 5k HP late game so instead of 100 HP more, it's 2-300 HP more. And you can shield other people. Think about all those Juggermaw comps if instead of just having Lulu and Janna to shield the Kogmaw, Nunu bought FotM after Cinderhulk for an additional 500 HP shield on the guy. Shit would be pretty broken. Face of the Mountain is blatantly overpowered and it's not really a discussion topic. Other big HP items simply do not compete, period. The only reason why there aren't 4-6 of them being built in every game is because pros haven't realized how overtuned the thing is. Actually, the only pro who picked up on it was Darien in 1 game on Shyvana last year. When I told my friend I was duoing about how good it is recently, he was surprised that it was even possible to buy it on a jungler. Support and Jungle items resitricting themselves because they generate gold is a mental roadblock not many have examined. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Now you can. | ||
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TheHumanSensation
Canada1210 Posts
On April 15 2015 08:45 Ketara wrote: Last season you couldn't buy a jungle item and a support item together. Now you can. WOAH ok that's what I've always been missing about the FotM = best discussion. Also going to throw it out there that I prefer homeguards to Warmogs as an out-of-combat regen item that lots of tanks pick up early anyway. | ||
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Sonnington
United States1107 Posts
It's so true that Warmog's passive is completely underrated. I like rushing it on Evelynn. After engaging/attacking and getting low on mana and hp. I can heal both my mana and hp while stealthed and in position while the enemy thinks I've backed. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
You can't just look at the HP, same as you have to take the likeliness of picking up such an item very late (and thus limited slots). | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On April 15 2015 08:56 Sonnington wrote: It's tough to compare FotM vs Warmogs vs FM. On champs like Volibear and Sejuani you get damage from HP items, Warmogs is clearly superior. Since they also have strong CC, FM isn't so great of an item. On champs like Shyvanna who have no CC it's awesome! It's so true that Warmog's passive is completely underrated. I like rushing it on Evelynn. After engaging/attacking and getting low on mana and hp. I can heal both my mana and hp while stealthed and in position while the enemy thinks I've backed. Okay so, I'mma ignore Sejuani because I don't buy any of the above on Sejuani anyway. So, lets look at Volibear. Volibear gets max 90 physical damage on his bite from the extra 300 HP from Warmogs. If he has no bonus AD or AP at all (unlikely), FotM's active at level 18 gives him 116 AoE damage. If we presume our Voli has say, 4k HP. Face of the Mountain gives Volibear 19.1 HP/5 Warmogs gives him 40 HP/5. So, for 300 more gold and a worse build path, is 20.1 HP/5 better than 100 HP, 10% CDR, more damage and the ability to give your team gold, and I really need to stress that this is a big deal, shield other people? I do not think it is. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
this is the same reason I never understood the obsession with Triforce on Voli that said I gave up the ghost on Voli this season so I haven't played him literally since pre season. Rank 1 Q is just so bad now and it does not feel rewarding at all to level Q early. If Voli makes a comeback I'd imagine it'd be more likely as a top | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On April 15 2015 08:56 Sonnington wrote: It's tough to compare FotM vs Warmogs vs FM. On champs like Volibear and Sejuani you get damage from HP items, Warmogs is clearly superior. Since they also have strong CC, FM isn't so great of an item. On champs like Shyvanna who have no CC it's awesome! It's so true that Warmog's passive is completely underrated. I like rushing it on Evelynn. After engaging/attacking and getting low on mana and hp. I can heal both my mana and hp while stealthed and in position while the enemy thinks I've backed. Do you like wait in a bush for the two minutes it takes to regen 75%...? Lol, I just timed it, with homeguard tabis it takes less than 35 seconds to recall from top lane, regen from 10hp to full, and run all the way back to the top lane river brush. Warmogs sucks. | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On April 15 2015 08:10 sob3k wrote: Well, You win teamfight: Enemy is dead, you have free map. You lose teamfight: You are dead. You lose but escape as the tank: You can't really do anything but farm, not like you can tower dive solo or do dragon. Its gonna take too long and warmogs doesn't give that much regen. They lose and someone escapes: maybe you can push something more with regen along with your carries that they would be scared to do without you. Thats a pretty niche win-more situation to base an entire defensive item purchase on over other options. Not to mention that unless you are garen the regen really isn't that amazing, it takes quite a while to get back to health if you just came out of a teamfight and are really low. It takes well over 80 seconds to get 50% of your HP back, respawn aint that long. Well its more like You get in a skirmish: neither enemy is dead, you have a contested map which you can use to push/clear minions/whatever. If you have warmogs you can regen and push with your team. You can soak a bit of poke and still be a tank for your team. With an other HP item you cannot, unless you're garen. Basically the HP differential for FoTM is 100 - 4/second. In 25 seconds of not being at full HP the HP differential is flipped and warmogs starts being better. Unless you're able to utilize the entirety of the active shield every 60 seconds. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35130 Posts
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