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On November 10 2014 16:03 sung_moon wrote:
Is Irelia vs Darius just one of those matchups you have to sacrifice a crapton of farm, not give up any kills, and cry while they freeze lane?
Sure feels like that when jungler forsakes you and they just freeze lane on you.
Like is there any way for Irelia to deal with Darius early on, except Q around minions, stun him, then run away and wait for CD's/minions to reach turret?
Yep. My goal at level 1 tbh is just to make him q the wave(me included) and just have it push so I can farm. Your goal is to hit level 4 even on health and creeps, and then all in to force him to base. If you can hit 6 first, all in again and you should be able to farm from there on out. You still won't win a duel once he has ult without like a 2 level advantage though.
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Why are you stronger at 4 specifically? Because you double the damage and healing from Hiten Style while he "only" gets 50% damage on Q (which is still 50 if he hits you with the blade)?
(Which item start and runes too, I assume you're going to run AS/AD instead of AS/MS, or even armour quints, and you start dshield for the combat stats or cloth+5 rather than flask?)
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Probably because Darius will take E at lvl 4.
But there's no way irelia is stronger than darius at level 4. Especially if you let him push and you're doing it in to creeps..
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I have a hard time believing a properly runed and masteried darius loses lane to almost any melee top, irelia included, at any point in the game, ever. if darius is 30-0-0 and starts Dblade, then MAYBE irelia can all-in darius with exhaust+ignite cheese, but even then, flash TP darius is 50/50 against that, and flash ignite darius, with all of the aforementioned fail still probably wins the trade.
fuck darius though.
I just had the misfortune of playing poppy vs darius in blinds.
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On November 11 2014 04:01 ItsFunToLose wrote:
I have a hard time believing a properly runed and masteried darius loses lane to almost any melee top, irelia included, at any point in the game, ever. if darius is 30-0-0 and starts Dblade, then MAYBE irelia can all-in darius with exhaust+ignite cheese, but even then, flash TP darius is 50/50 against that, and flash ignite darius, with all of the aforementioned fail still probably wins the trade.
fuck darius though.
I just had the misfortune of playing poppy vs darius in blinds.
There are no excuses to ever leave a game, but that match-up is definitely an exception.
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Someone tell me how to properly, all-in Darius (as Irelia) at level 4 and 6, because I sure as hell don't see it.
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On November 10 2014 21:39 Gahlo wrote:
S5 needs to hurry up and get here already so I can play Elise again.
I don't play on PBE and generally don't jungle much, but does it look like the jungle will be more or less hospitable to unorthodox junglers?
The few times I end up jungling I like going AD Malz -- not saying he's a great jungler, but clearing the jungle is the least of his problems. Is the new jungle harsher on champs not designed for jungling?
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All-ining Darius as Irelia is easy, just wait until you can land Sonic Wave and then you outdamage him.
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On November 11 2014 05:44 sung_moon wrote:
Someone tell me how to properly, all-in Darius (as Irelia) at level 4 and 6, because I sure as hell don't see it.
Play at 1500 elo and then you can do it!!!!
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You can do it at any elo.All it takes is a jungler or support main to pick him.
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On November 11 2014 05:51 bmn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2014 21:39 Gahlo wrote:
S5 needs to hurry up and get here already so I can play Elise again. I don't play on PBE and generally don't jungle much, but does it look like the jungle will be more or less hospitable to unorthodox junglers? The few times I end up jungling I like going AD Malz -- not saying he's a great jungler, but clearing the jungle is the least of his problems. Is the new jungle harsher on champs not designed for jungling?
Idk, but the final nail in the coffin for Elise was the change to SotAG. Juggernaut basically resets that change.
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On November 11 2014 05:51 bmn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2014 21:39 Gahlo wrote:
S5 needs to hurry up and get here already so I can play Elise again. I don't play on PBE and generally don't jungle much, but does it look like the jungle will be more or less hospitable to unorthodox junglers? The few times I end up jungling I like going AD Malz -- not saying he's a great jungler, but clearing the jungle is the least of his problems. Is the new jungle harsher on champs not designed for jungling?
Jungle Malzahar will have problems unless you're exceedingly good because the Hp5/Mp5 buff you get from PBE Machete is (last I checked) contingent upon being attacked. You'd have to position yourself such that your Voidlings tank everything but one smaller minion to properly benefit, which won't be easy.
As someone who has specialized in unorthodox junglers as long as jungling has existed, the primary problem isn't itemization (though Riot's efforts therein are helpful) but meta/farm priority/team composition.
Consider Jungle Karthas. He's probably the most successful unorthodox jungler there is that is still categorized as unorthodox. He can clear well even without Blue, he can gank effectively before and after 6, and he is good at his role. He's ignored as a jungler not because of itemization or inherent weaknesses, but because there isn't a compelling reason to have an AP in the jungle.
If that changes then those unorthodox junglers that aren't simply suboptimal will be able to step into the spotlight.
On a slightly different note I was pretty excited about the potential resurgence of junglers rushing level 6 due to the vastly increased leveling speed of junglers on the PBE, but Riot nerfed that by removing the bonus experience from Smite save for the first time it's used. No more OP 5:40 level 6 on Karthas. 
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On November 11 2014 05:51 Alzadar wrote:
All-ining Darius as Irelia is easy, just wait until you can land Sonic Wave and then you outdamage him.
You can't, 1v1.
He's stronger than you at lvl 6+ and he's stronger than you at early levels.
Only thing you can do is dodge his Q's if you want to fight him pre-6, and
wait till lvl 9+ to stack health / some armor and outsustain him
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Now my grind back into gold is over, what do i have to look forward to from the Preseason patch?
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I would just sit back and wait after the chaotic pre season is over.
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On November 11 2014 07:14 Capped wrote:
Now my grind back into gold is over, what do i have to look forward to from the Preseason patch?
Hopefully something as hilariously broken as targons or black cleaver when they were first released. Though I suspect the biggest change people will be testing out the most is going to be the Jungle.
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Winning a trade hard enough to force darius back needs darius to fuck up a Q(aka miss), and be in a position where you can fight with relatively even creeps before it comes back up. Opening isn't there every game at level 4. Other option is at 6 vs 5, but generally speaking that opening isn't there either because darius will be the one pushing and hitting 6 first.
After those openings are up, assuming equal skill without jungler help or actually succeeding, you'll lose every fight/trade.
Just not a good matchup.
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On November 11 2014 07:14 Capped wrote:
Now my grind back into gold is over, what do i have to look forward to from the Preseason patch?
Relearning every matchup in solo lanes. New stats and stat growth will screw with a lot of allins and trades
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EPT
