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imho, I don't think Lucian plays well when behind, nor does exceptionally well against tanks late game (and especially against tanks that can get in his face), and this is even more prevalent with certain build paths that shoehorn him into a more mid game play-style (IE->SS->BT)
He's a mid game god with okay mobility (his e is great for trades and retreating in small skirmishes, but in big team fights, it's use as an escape is somewhat limited to dashing though the terrain)
The reason he is so strong right now is mostly due to the fact that the meta is turning to the mid-game, rather than the more late game play style that engulfed the earlier part of the season.
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On October 15 2014 22:28 nafta wrote:
Honestly the only problem with lucian is every single adc keeps getting nerfed again and again.Do you remember when corki's cd inbetween missiles was doubled and he was considered very weak?He came back to top tier again lol.Rito pls
Also lucian is just a very easy to play champ while his counterplay is hard that is kind of a problem.Like if you play well you can beat him with a lot of ads but can be hard for a lot of people.
As for laning can pick most champs honestly.Caitlyn/graves probably the easiest but if you are very good vayne is probably the strongest.
I mean sure, if we're gonna rewrite history and act like his .5AD ratio on Q was there all along to fit a narrative. Sure.
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I know no one plays draven anymore but does he actually lose lane to lucian?
If you can get to sheen phage as corki (vs bf pickaxe) it's as close as to a hard counter to lucian as you can get, because unless you suck at skillshots (if you do don't play corki), you both outtrade him and outharass him
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On October 15 2014 21:42 goiflin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 21:12 Scip wrote:On October 15 2014 18:10 JazzVortical wrote:On October 15 2014 17:15 Scip wrote:
I love the part where you didn't even bother to pretend your position is defensible Yeah that last post was shit on my part. Was heading to dinner. Not that I think your 'bustin' chops' approach is a good one, but whatever, I'd rather talk about League design. If you want my reasoning, then here it is. I assume your talking about the free mobility bit yes? Mobility is insanely powerful. It makes your character a lot safer. Being able to quickly put space between yourself and a potential gank for example goes a long way to thwarting the gank attempt. You can dodge high priority skillshots. You are also generally given the ability to traverse walls with a mobility skill, something that is inaccessible for several other champs, outside of Flash (given Flash's cooldown, this isn't always a feasible option, not to mention the obvious dangers of flashing over a wall without proper vision of the rest of team). On the other hand, you have massively increased play making potential, whether it be over a wall, or just closing the gap to start a fight. These strengths need a cost associated with them, and I don't think the cost is right with a lot of champs. Burning a cooldown isn't enough IMO. I think Caitlyn's net is bullshit (that's another discussion), but if she spends all her time throwing out peacemakers and goes OOM, at least she is vulnerable to being dueled/engaged upon, which she does not deal with well. Obviously this means a smart (or just not braindead) Cait will conserve enough mana to use her net in a tight spot, but that reduces her ability use the rest of her abilities and exploit her strengths (poke), as she has to keep some in reserve. Because net has a cost associated with it, being careful with abilities has to at least be taken into some consideration. Lucian is a problem (well not as much in lane anymore) because his natural weakness should be running out of mana. I've always tried to treat Lucian like Pantheon. A bitch to deal with, but if you can last through it til he's burned through his mana, you've now got the ascendency and can punish. Late game is different because mana usage naturally becomes less and less of a factor as the game goes on. However, having free mobility means you have access to the playmaking/safety it provides, without it hindering or it taxing the ability to use the rest of your kit. Maybe if free mobility skills had insane cooldowns, I could get on board. So basically because mobility skills are powerful they should in your opinion have some cost other than cd associated with them+for some reason you think that lucian's weakness should be high mana costs I guess at least you expanded your bold proclamation into 4 paragraphs which does at a first glance seem to make it more thought out It's not "for some reason". He clearly states his logic in why mobility skills should have costs associated with them, and why they are so powerful within the context of the game itself (specifically addressing dashes/blinks and their ability to traverse walls, create plays, close distance, dodge high priority skillshots). You are just ignoring what he says. For someone who talked about TL's general attitude towards useless posts, you sure seem pretty dedicated to making them in this discussion. You've already voiced your disapproval of his opinion, but you haven't actually addressed any of his points in the argument.
How is
Mobility skills are very powerful and make you a lot safer and gives you more offensive and defensive option -> they need to either have huge cooldown or some cost besides cooldown
logic? It would be generous to call it a thought process
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That is fairly late in lane though, basically waves die instantly to you both. Plus, I think it is kind of evidence of my point that they are both bad champions for overall ADC balance.
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Eh, I would argue that Corki is quite balanced, like yeah he's great early and a god in mid, but doesn't transition well into the late game
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Lucian doesn't really care about tanks because of how high is damage is. The issue would be if he had to burn everything to crack them open and then he's left without cooldowns to burst down the opposing carries.
But he can just WR them and deal over half their HP in damage unless they want to get away asap, and then he still has Q (W and E will prob come off cd after that as well) to burst someone. Unless you hard cc him with a non-skillshot that'll keep him pretty safe and healthy too.
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As far as Lucian goes, I think Corki and Graves are the only two that can match him as far as burst goes. Corki because of his stupidly high burst with Q +triforce + R and graves because his passive is actually pretty strong if stacked along with his inherent burst if they're both trading full combos. Smokescreen also happens to screw with the Lucian players who rely on muscle memory to cast their skills, they usually miss out on one empowered auto.
Honestly though, I feel that ghostblade is usually better spent on Lucian's ult than on his combo. The AS/MS lets him hit pretty much every shot of the culling and napkin math is telling me that it's probably going to be more damage as well.
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Oh yeah that's more. But it also means that even when they aren't doing the optimal thing, The Culling still deals more damage than autos. Which, by design, shouldn't ever happen I think (unless you're doing some weird PD/SotD/Wit's End build or some other non-sensical shit).
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On October 15 2014 23:38 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 22:28 nafta wrote:
Honestly the only problem with lucian is every single adc keeps getting nerfed again and again.Do you remember when corki's cd inbetween missiles was doubled and he was considered very weak?He came back to top tier again lol.Rito pls
Also lucian is just a very easy to play champ while his counterplay is hard that is kind of a problem.Like if you play well you can beat him with a lot of ads but can be hard for a lot of people.
As for laning can pick most champs honestly.Caitlyn/graves probably the easiest but if you are very good vayne is probably the strongest. I mean sure, if we're gonna rewrite history and act like his .5AD ratio on Q was there all along to fit a narrative. Sure.
Lol I completely forgot that he didnt get the .5 bonus ad on q same patch his r got nerfed what a dumb dumb.
On October 15 2014 23:55 Vanka wrote:
I know no one plays draven anymore but does he actually lose lane to lucian?
If you can get to sheen phage as corki (vs bf pickaxe) it's as close as to a hard counter to lucian as you can get, because unless you suck at skillshots (if you do don't play corki), you both outtrade him and outharass him
Draven does decent vs lucian yeah.
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On October 16 2014 00:29 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 23:38 Gahlo wrote:On October 15 2014 22:28 nafta wrote:
Honestly the only problem with lucian is every single adc keeps getting nerfed again and again.Do you remember when corki's cd inbetween missiles was doubled and he was considered very weak?He came back to top tier again lol.Rito pls
Also lucian is just a very easy to play champ while his counterplay is hard that is kind of a problem.Like if you play well you can beat him with a lot of ads but can be hard for a lot of people.
As for laning can pick most champs honestly.Caitlyn/graves probably the easiest but if you are very good vayne is probably the strongest. I mean sure, if we're gonna rewrite history and act like his .5AD ratio on Q was there all along to fit a narrative. Sure. Lol I completely forgot that he didnt get the .5 bonus ad on q same patch his r got nerfed what a dumb dumb.
+ Show Spoiler [Corki change log from ult nerf to Q buff] +V4.3:
Phosphorus Bomb.png Phosphorus Bomb
Added (+50% bonus AD) scaling.
Area of effect indicator is now shown for allied players.
V3.14:
Phosphorus Bomb.png Phosphorus Bomb
Mana cost reduced to 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 from 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120.
Now lobs a bomb through the air that explodes at the end location, instead of instantly damaging the area.
Cast range increased to 825 from 600.
Now additionally grants vision while the missile is in the air.
Gatling Gun.png Gatling Gun
Mana cost reduced to 50 at all ranks from 60 / 65 / 70 / 75 / 80.
Missile Barrage.png Missile Barrage
Total attack damage ratio increased to 20 / 30 / 40% from 20%.
V3.13:
Stats
Base attack speed reduced to 0.625 from 0.658.
Missile Barrage.png Missile Barrage
Cooldown increased to 2 seconds from 1.2.
Cooldown is now a static cooldown.
Base damage reduced to 100 / 180 / 260 from 120 / 190 / 260.
Lol it's almost like Corki did get a lot of small buffs before gaining a massive ratio out between when the ult got nerfed and when he became popular again. Who knew time moved in a coherent stream method instead of skipping around for you? Stop talking out of your ass.
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On October 16 2014 00:08 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 21:42 goiflin wrote:On October 15 2014 21:12 Scip wrote:On October 15 2014 18:10 JazzVortical wrote:On October 15 2014 17:15 Scip wrote:
I love the part where you didn't even bother to pretend your position is defensible Yeah that last post was shit on my part. Was heading to dinner. Not that I think your 'bustin' chops' approach is a good one, but whatever, I'd rather talk about League design. If you want my reasoning, then here it is. I assume your talking about the free mobility bit yes? Mobility is insanely powerful. It makes your character a lot safer. Being able to quickly put space between yourself and a potential gank for example goes a long way to thwarting the gank attempt. You can dodge high priority skillshots. You are also generally given the ability to traverse walls with a mobility skill, something that is inaccessible for several other champs, outside of Flash (given Flash's cooldown, this isn't always a feasible option, not to mention the obvious dangers of flashing over a wall without proper vision of the rest of team). On the other hand, you have massively increased play making potential, whether it be over a wall, or just closing the gap to start a fight. These strengths need a cost associated with them, and I don't think the cost is right with a lot of champs. Burning a cooldown isn't enough IMO. I think Caitlyn's net is bullshit (that's another discussion), but if she spends all her time throwing out peacemakers and goes OOM, at least she is vulnerable to being dueled/engaged upon, which she does not deal with well. Obviously this means a smart (or just not braindead) Cait will conserve enough mana to use her net in a tight spot, but that reduces her ability use the rest of her abilities and exploit her strengths (poke), as she has to keep some in reserve. Because net has a cost associated with it, being careful with abilities has to at least be taken into some consideration. Lucian is a problem (well not as much in lane anymore) because his natural weakness should be running out of mana. I've always tried to treat Lucian like Pantheon. A bitch to deal with, but if you can last through it til he's burned through his mana, you've now got the ascendency and can punish. Late game is different because mana usage naturally becomes less and less of a factor as the game goes on. However, having free mobility means you have access to the playmaking/safety it provides, without it hindering or it taxing the ability to use the rest of your kit. Maybe if free mobility skills had insane cooldowns, I could get on board. So basically because mobility skills are powerful they should in your opinion have some cost other than cd associated with them+for some reason you think that lucian's weakness should be high mana costs I guess at least you expanded your bold proclamation into 4 paragraphs which does at a first glance seem to make it more thought out It's not "for some reason". He clearly states his logic in why mobility skills should have costs associated with them, and why they are so powerful within the context of the game itself (specifically addressing dashes/blinks and their ability to traverse walls, create plays, close distance, dodge high priority skillshots). You are just ignoring what he says. For someone who talked about TL's general attitude towards useless posts, you sure seem pretty dedicated to making them in this discussion. You've already voiced your disapproval of his opinion, but you haven't actually addressed any of his points in the argument. How is Mobility skills are very powerful and make you a lot safer and gives you more offensive and defensive option -> they need to either have huge cooldown or some cost besides cooldown logic? It would be generous to call it a thought process
Just because he didn't state "the more powerful the ability the higher cost needs to be associated with it" does not mean that you shouldn't understand the axiom or that it wasn't obvious he was using it.
Otherwise lets just make a champion which has lucians passive, Ashe's Ult, Lucians E, Sivir's Q, and Ashe's W. And lets give all of these things zero mana cost with CD gates at their current values and also give this champion bruiser level base and level scaling and 650 auto attack range.
This totally won't make an OP champion at all because, after all, "there is no reason that a more powerful ability should have higher costs associated with it"
Oh wait, that is retarded. Stronger abilities must have higher costs associated with them, if its their mana cost, their cooldown, the strength of the other abilities in their kit, or their base/level scaling stats because otherwise you build crazy OP champions
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On October 16 2014 03:26 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2014 00:08 Scip wrote:On October 15 2014 21:42 goiflin wrote:On October 15 2014 21:12 Scip wrote:On October 15 2014 18:10 JazzVortical wrote:On October 15 2014 17:15 Scip wrote:
I love the part where you didn't even bother to pretend your position is defensible Yeah that last post was shit on my part. Was heading to dinner. Not that I think your 'bustin' chops' approach is a good one, but whatever, I'd rather talk about League design. If you want my reasoning, then here it is. I assume your talking about the free mobility bit yes? Mobility is insanely powerful. It makes your character a lot safer. Being able to quickly put space between yourself and a potential gank for example goes a long way to thwarting the gank attempt. You can dodge high priority skillshots. You are also generally given the ability to traverse walls with a mobility skill, something that is inaccessible for several other champs, outside of Flash (given Flash's cooldown, this isn't always a feasible option, not to mention the obvious dangers of flashing over a wall without proper vision of the rest of team). On the other hand, you have massively increased play making potential, whether it be over a wall, or just closing the gap to start a fight. These strengths need a cost associated with them, and I don't think the cost is right with a lot of champs. Burning a cooldown isn't enough IMO. I think Caitlyn's net is bullshit (that's another discussion), but if she spends all her time throwing out peacemakers and goes OOM, at least she is vulnerable to being dueled/engaged upon, which she does not deal with well. Obviously this means a smart (or just not braindead) Cait will conserve enough mana to use her net in a tight spot, but that reduces her ability use the rest of her abilities and exploit her strengths (poke), as she has to keep some in reserve. Because net has a cost associated with it, being careful with abilities has to at least be taken into some consideration. Lucian is a problem (well not as much in lane anymore) because his natural weakness should be running out of mana. I've always tried to treat Lucian like Pantheon. A bitch to deal with, but if you can last through it til he's burned through his mana, you've now got the ascendency and can punish. Late game is different because mana usage naturally becomes less and less of a factor as the game goes on. However, having free mobility means you have access to the playmaking/safety it provides, without it hindering or it taxing the ability to use the rest of your kit. Maybe if free mobility skills had insane cooldowns, I could get on board. So basically because mobility skills are powerful they should in your opinion have some cost other than cd associated with them+for some reason you think that lucian's weakness should be high mana costs I guess at least you expanded your bold proclamation into 4 paragraphs which does at a first glance seem to make it more thought out It's not "for some reason". He clearly states his logic in why mobility skills should have costs associated with them, and why they are so powerful within the context of the game itself (specifically addressing dashes/blinks and their ability to traverse walls, create plays, close distance, dodge high priority skillshots). You are just ignoring what he says. For someone who talked about TL's general attitude towards useless posts, you sure seem pretty dedicated to making them in this discussion. You've already voiced your disapproval of his opinion, but you haven't actually addressed any of his points in the argument. How is Mobility skills are very powerful and make you a lot safer and gives you more offensive and defensive option -> they need to either have huge cooldown or some cost besides cooldown logic? It would be generous to call it a thought process Just because he didn't state "the more powerful the ability the higher cost needs to be associated with it" does not mean that you shouldn't understand the axiom or that it wasn't obvious he was using it. Otherwise lets just make a champion which has lucians passive, Ashe's Ult, Lucians E, Sivir's Q, and Ashe's W. And lets give all of these things zero mana cost with CD gates at their current values and also give this champion bruiser level base and level scaling and 650 auto attack range. This totally won't make an OP champion at all because, after all, "there is no reason that a more powerful ability should have higher costs associated with it" Oh wait, that is retarded. Stronger abilities must have higher costs associated with them, if its their mana cost, their cooldown, the strength of the other abilities in their kit, or their base/level scaling stats because otherwise you build crazy OP champions
Skills aren't balanced with skills
champions are balanced with champions
holy shit how is this not the most obvious thing ever
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Alex ich needs to step up his Jayce game, every combo is max range gate instead of QE.
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On October 16 2014 03:39 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2014 03:26 Goumindong wrote:On October 16 2014 00:08 Scip wrote:On October 15 2014 21:42 goiflin wrote:On October 15 2014 21:12 Scip wrote:On October 15 2014 18:10 JazzVortical wrote:On October 15 2014 17:15 Scip wrote:
I love the part where you didn't even bother to pretend your position is defensible Yeah that last post was shit on my part. Was heading to dinner. Not that I think your 'bustin' chops' approach is a good one, but whatever, I'd rather talk about League design. If you want my reasoning, then here it is. I assume your talking about the free mobility bit yes? Mobility is insanely powerful. It makes your character a lot safer. Being able to quickly put space between yourself and a potential gank for example goes a long way to thwarting the gank attempt. You can dodge high priority skillshots. You are also generally given the ability to traverse walls with a mobility skill, something that is inaccessible for several other champs, outside of Flash (given Flash's cooldown, this isn't always a feasible option, not to mention the obvious dangers of flashing over a wall without proper vision of the rest of team). On the other hand, you have massively increased play making potential, whether it be over a wall, or just closing the gap to start a fight. These strengths need a cost associated with them, and I don't think the cost is right with a lot of champs. Burning a cooldown isn't enough IMO. I think Caitlyn's net is bullshit (that's another discussion), but if she spends all her time throwing out peacemakers and goes OOM, at least she is vulnerable to being dueled/engaged upon, which she does not deal with well. Obviously this means a smart (or just not braindead) Cait will conserve enough mana to use her net in a tight spot, but that reduces her ability use the rest of her abilities and exploit her strengths (poke), as she has to keep some in reserve. Because net has a cost associated with it, being careful with abilities has to at least be taken into some consideration. Lucian is a problem (well not as much in lane anymore) because his natural weakness should be running out of mana. I've always tried to treat Lucian like Pantheon. A bitch to deal with, but if you can last through it til he's burned through his mana, you've now got the ascendency and can punish. Late game is different because mana usage naturally becomes less and less of a factor as the game goes on. However, having free mobility means you have access to the playmaking/safety it provides, without it hindering or it taxing the ability to use the rest of your kit. Maybe if free mobility skills had insane cooldowns, I could get on board. So basically because mobility skills are powerful they should in your opinion have some cost other than cd associated with them+for some reason you think that lucian's weakness should be high mana costs I guess at least you expanded your bold proclamation into 4 paragraphs which does at a first glance seem to make it more thought out It's not "for some reason". He clearly states his logic in why mobility skills should have costs associated with them, and why they are so powerful within the context of the game itself (specifically addressing dashes/blinks and their ability to traverse walls, create plays, close distance, dodge high priority skillshots). You are just ignoring what he says. For someone who talked about TL's general attitude towards useless posts, you sure seem pretty dedicated to making them in this discussion. You've already voiced your disapproval of his opinion, but you haven't actually addressed any of his points in the argument. How is Mobility skills are very powerful and make you a lot safer and gives you more offensive and defensive option -> they need to either have huge cooldown or some cost besides cooldown logic? It would be generous to call it a thought process Just because he didn't state "the more powerful the ability the higher cost needs to be associated with it" does not mean that you shouldn't understand the axiom or that it wasn't obvious he was using it. Otherwise lets just make a champion which has lucians passive, Ashe's Ult, Lucians E, Sivir's Q, and Ashe's W. And lets give all of these things zero mana cost with CD gates at their current values and also give this champion bruiser level base and level scaling and 650 auto attack range. This totally won't make an OP champion at all because, after all, "there is no reason that a more powerful ability should have higher costs associated with it" Oh wait, that is retarded. Stronger abilities must have higher costs associated with them, if its their mana cost, their cooldown, the strength of the other abilities in their kit, or their base/level scaling stats because otherwise you build crazy OP champions Skills aren't balanced with skills champions are balanced with champions holy shit how is this not the most obvious thing ever
What part of anything that I or Jazz wrote implies that champions aren't balanced with champions? And what part of anything that you wrote implied that you were disagreeing with the notion that skills should be balanced with skills and suggesting that the problem you had was that champions were to be balanced with champions?
A1: Nothing
A2: Also Nothing
Holy shit how is this not the most obvious thing ever? If you don't have skills balanced with champions champions cannot be balanced with champions.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
"the more powerful the ability the higher cost needs to be associated with it"
doesn't have to be true when you take into account that champions have 4-7 skills and not just 1
"Otherwise lets just make a champion which has lucians passive, Ashe's Ult, Lucians E, Sivir's Q, and Ashe's W. And lets give all of these things zero mana cost with CD gates at their current values and also give this champion bruiser level base and level scaling and 650 auto attack range."
this is just dumbfuckery that doesn't make any sense but it does seem to vaguely misunderstand that different skills can be differently powerful as long as the champion is balanced in the end
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On October 16 2014 03:49 Scip wrote:
"the more powerful the ability the higher cost needs to be associated with it"
doesn't have to be true when you take into account that champions have 4-7 skills and not just 1
Except that no where was it implied that the higher cost had to explicitly be on that ability. Indeed, had you read the posts made, you would have seen that the rest of the champions kit and how it interacted with the offending ability were mentioned multiple times in the balancing discussion. Its true that the solution that had come up was mana, but this is irrespective of the axiom and simply representative of the idea that the mobility skill use should present limits on the use of the rest of the kit.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On October 15 2014 16:45 JazzVortical wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 13:13 justiceknight wrote:
whos good against lucian now? as an adc main i dont even know lol, no matter how good i doing in lane he just shit on me later. No one is. He is pretty much a classic case of meant to be good a certain role/niche, turns out that niche is being good at everything. Thank god he can't dodge skillshots for free now/again. Although, it's still a crock of shit that his dash scales down to 0 cost. Mobility (especially when ground targeted) should never be free.
emphasis mine
On October 15 2014 18:10 JazzVortical wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 17:15 Scip wrote:
I love the part where you didn't even bother to pretend your position is defensible Yeah that last post was shit on my part. Was heading to dinner. Not that I think your 'bustin' chops' approach is a good one, but whatever, I'd rather talk about League design. If you want my reasoning, then here it is. I assume your talking about the free mobility bit yes? Mobility is insanely powerful. It makes your character a lot safer. Being able to quickly put space between yourself and a potential gank for example goes a long way to thwarting the gank attempt. You can dodge high priority skillshots. You are also generally given the ability to traverse walls with a mobility skill, something that is inaccessible for several other champs, outside of Flash (given Flash's cooldown, this isn't always a feasible option, not to mention the obvious dangers of flashing over a wall without proper vision of the rest of team). On the other hand, you have massively increased play making potential, whether it be over a wall, or just closing the gap to start a fight. These strengths need a cost associated with them, and I don't think the cost is right with a lot of champs. Burning a cooldown isn't enough IMO. I think Caitlyn's net is bullshit (that's another discussion), but if she spends all her time throwing out peacemakers and goes OOM, at least she is vulnerable to being dueled/engaged upon, which she does not deal with well. Obviously this means a smart (or just not braindead) Cait will conserve enough mana to use her net in a tight spot, but that reduces her ability use the rest of her abilities and exploit her strengths (poke), as she has to keep some in reserve. Because net has a cost associated with it, being careful with abilities has to at least be taken into some consideration. Lucian is a problem (well not as much in lane anymore) because his natural weakness should be running out of mana. I've always tried to treat Lucian like Pantheon. A bitch to deal with, but if you can last through it til he's burned through his mana, you've now got the ascendency and can punish. Late game is different because mana usage naturally becomes less and less of a factor as the game goes on. However, having free mobility means you have access to the playmaking/safety it provides, without it hindering or it taxing the ability to use the rest of your kit. Maybe if free mobility skills had insane cooldowns, I could get on board.
emphasis mine again
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On October 16 2014 03:49 Scip wrote:
"Otherwise lets just make a champion which has lucians passive, Ashe's Ult, Lucians E, Sivir's Q, and Ashe's W. And lets give all of these things zero mana cost with CD gates at their current values and also give this champion bruiser level base and level scaling and 650 auto attack range."
this is just dumbfuckery that doesn't make any sense but it does seem to vaguely misunderstand that different skills can be differently powerful as long as the champion is balanced in the end
Maybe you should try reading the entire post before you respond instead of just shitposting.
Oh wait, that is retarded. Stronger abilities must have higher costs associated with them, if its their mana cost, their cooldown, the strength of the other abilities in their kit, or their base/level scaling stats because otherwise you build crazy OP champions
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EPT
