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On October 11 2014 19:28 Potatisodlaren wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2014 19:22 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 11 2014 19:20 Potatisodlaren wrote:
Still not the same as RNG on crits, that's just a ridiculous analogy. I mean crits are the same regardless of the player, that's why they are problematic, but with skillshots the players skill greatly improves the chance of hitting which mean the caster does have a huge impact of them hitting it which is why they aren't problematic in the same way that crits are. Pseudo random abilities like crits can be abused by players to gain an advantage as well. Could you show me a VOD of that actually happening in a way that merits the comparison to skillshots? I don't think I've ever seen it and certainly not having a meaningful impact. Meanwhile good players are using skillshots in teamfights while taking into account the mobility abilities and their cooldowns and positioning of multiple people all the time.
It's exceptionally difficult to find a VOD of that, because in competitive matches you won't ever have the camera on the laning phase long enough to notice it, and its not really used by NA players that i've kept an eye out for on streams. (aka qtpie and scarra the only streamers i watch).
pretty much how it works though is: you attack creeps a few times and if you have 10+% crit chance and you hit creeps 3-4 times with no crits you know you are much more likely to crit the next few shots. so you look to trade immediately knowing that if the trade lasts a few hits you'll probably get more crits than the other player and win the trade or be able to continue to an all-in to get the kill.
its comparable to skillshots, because its all in the setup. you keep track of how often you are critting creeps and then you switch to being aggressive when you haven't crit for a while knowing you will get better crit chance than you paid for during that trade.
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Bearded Elder29904 Posts
What has TLGD thread became. Just a pile of shitposts, hate and theorycrafting 24/7.
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Pretty sure that crit normalization has separate counts for minions and champions. Might not but pretty sure
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Nope. There's not even real theorycrafting anymore.
And I need chemo holy shit.
On October 11 2014 14:23 Parnage wrote:
I like the new Storm Spirit. I'm glad they changed it from that horrible fat blue guy.
Eh I liked the fat guy better. Voice fit him more plus why only have tall fit dudes?
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On October 11 2014 19:46 739 wrote:
What has TLGD thread became. Just a pile of shitposts, hate and theorycrafting 24/7.
have you guys missed me?
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On October 11 2014 20:31 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2014 19:46 739 wrote:
What has TLGD thread became. Just a pile of shitposts, hate and theorycrafting 24/7. have you guys missed me?
#teutformod2014
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i would love to see broken watch as a tenured mod
would be like electing the joker as the president
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Skillshots are decided by players, crits are decided by the computer, the difference is quite clear to me.
On the topic of colors in DotA, nobody made an analogy with a regular sport. Like imagine you spectate a basketball game where all players wear different colors... I can understand how it can be useful for TPs and pings, but it's definitely hard to understand on the fly. In LoL you'd need to learn the portraits to differenciate the champions, but at least you know from the start the two team with the colored borders and health bars.
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On October 11 2014 20:35 -Zoda- wrote:
Skillshots are decided by players, crits are decided by the computer, the difference is quite clear to me.
On the topic of colors in DotA, nobody made an analogy with a regular sport. Like imagine you spectate a basketball game where all players wear different colors... I can understand how it can be useful for TPs and pings, but it's definitely hard to understand on the fly. In LoL you'd need to learn the portraits to differenciate the champions, but at least you know from the start the two team with the colored borders and health bars.
dota uses team colors for borders and hp bars too
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Yeah, that is something weird i noticed. You can get the same setup as in LoL in Dota when playing, with players on the map being portraits surrounded by a bit of green/red for friendly/enemy. But apparently when spectating, they are all portraits surrounded by green.
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On October 11 2014 19:35 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2014 19:28 Potatisodlaren wrote:On October 11 2014 19:22 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 11 2014 19:20 Potatisodlaren wrote:
Still not the same as RNG on crits, that's just a ridiculous analogy. I mean crits are the same regardless of the player, that's why they are problematic, but with skillshots the players skill greatly improves the chance of hitting which mean the caster does have a huge impact of them hitting it which is why they aren't problematic in the same way that crits are. Pseudo random abilities like crits can be abused by players to gain an advantage as well. Could you show me a VOD of that actually happening in a way that merits the comparison to skillshots? I don't think I've ever seen it and certainly not having a meaningful impact. Meanwhile good players are using skillshots in teamfights while taking into account the mobility abilities and their cooldowns and positioning of multiple people all the time. pretty much how it works though is: you attack creeps a few times and if you have 10+% crit chance and you hit creeps 3-4 times with no crits you know you are much more likely to crit the next few shots. so you look to trade immediately knowing that if the trade lasts a few hits you'll probably get more crits than the other player and win the trade or be able to continue to an all-in to get the kill.
Is it just me, or it makes absolutely no sense? I watched a lot of pro streams, but never heard any of them mention this crit-watch sillyness. No, you are not much more likely to crit if you don't crit X times in a row. It is math, you can't cheat it.
What is this.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On October 11 2014 20:51 Volband wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2014 19:35 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 11 2014 19:28 Potatisodlaren wrote:On October 11 2014 19:22 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 11 2014 19:20 Potatisodlaren wrote:
Still not the same as RNG on crits, that's just a ridiculous analogy. I mean crits are the same regardless of the player, that's why they are problematic, but with skillshots the players skill greatly improves the chance of hitting which mean the caster does have a huge impact of them hitting it which is why they aren't problematic in the same way that crits are. Pseudo random abilities like crits can be abused by players to gain an advantage as well. Could you show me a VOD of that actually happening in a way that merits the comparison to skillshots? I don't think I've ever seen it and certainly not having a meaningful impact. Meanwhile good players are using skillshots in teamfights while taking into account the mobility abilities and their cooldowns and positioning of multiple people all the time. pretty much how it works though is: you attack creeps a few times and if you have 10+% crit chance and you hit creeps 3-4 times with no crits you know you are much more likely to crit the next few shots. so you look to trade immediately knowing that if the trade lasts a few hits you'll probably get more crits than the other player and win the trade or be able to continue to an all-in to get the kill. Is it just me, or it makes absolutely no sense? I watched a lot of pro streams, but never heard any of them mention this crit-watch sillyness. No, you are not much more likely to crit if you don't crit X times in a row. It is math, you can't cheat it. What is this.
yes it is, it was implemented a year ago or so
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On October 11 2014 20:53 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2014 20:51 Volband wrote:On October 11 2014 19:35 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 11 2014 19:28 Potatisodlaren wrote:On October 11 2014 19:22 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 11 2014 19:20 Potatisodlaren wrote:
Still not the same as RNG on crits, that's just a ridiculous analogy. I mean crits are the same regardless of the player, that's why they are problematic, but with skillshots the players skill greatly improves the chance of hitting which mean the caster does have a huge impact of them hitting it which is why they aren't problematic in the same way that crits are. Pseudo random abilities like crits can be abused by players to gain an advantage as well. Could you show me a VOD of that actually happening in a way that merits the comparison to skillshots? I don't think I've ever seen it and certainly not having a meaningful impact. Meanwhile good players are using skillshots in teamfights while taking into account the mobility abilities and their cooldowns and positioning of multiple people all the time. pretty much how it works though is: you attack creeps a few times and if you have 10+% crit chance and you hit creeps 3-4 times with no crits you know you are much more likely to crit the next few shots. so you look to trade immediately knowing that if the trade lasts a few hits you'll probably get more crits than the other player and win the trade or be able to continue to an all-in to get the kill. Is it just me, or it makes absolutely no sense? I watched a lot of pro streams, but never heard any of them mention this crit-watch sillyness. No, you are not much more likely to crit if you don't crit X times in a row. It is math, you can't cheat it. What is this. yes it is, it was implemented a year ago or so
Link me please, my lolwiki search on critical chance did not show it.
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On October 11 2014 20:51 Volband wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2014 19:35 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 11 2014 19:28 Potatisodlaren wrote:On October 11 2014 19:22 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 11 2014 19:20 Potatisodlaren wrote:
Still not the same as RNG on crits, that's just a ridiculous analogy. I mean crits are the same regardless of the player, that's why they are problematic, but with skillshots the players skill greatly improves the chance of hitting which mean the caster does have a huge impact of them hitting it which is why they aren't problematic in the same way that crits are. Pseudo random abilities like crits can be abused by players to gain an advantage as well. Could you show me a VOD of that actually happening in a way that merits the comparison to skillshots? I don't think I've ever seen it and certainly not having a meaningful impact. Meanwhile good players are using skillshots in teamfights while taking into account the mobility abilities and their cooldowns and positioning of multiple people all the time. pretty much how it works though is: you attack creeps a few times and if you have 10+% crit chance and you hit creeps 3-4 times with no crits you know you are much more likely to crit the next few shots. so you look to trade immediately knowing that if the trade lasts a few hits you'll probably get more crits than the other player and win the trade or be able to continue to an all-in to get the kill. Is it just me, or it makes absolutely no sense? I watched a lot of pro streams, but never heard any of them mention this crit-watch sillyness. No, you are not much more likely to crit if you don't crit X times in a row. It is math, you can't cheat it. What is this.
Yeah, crit in LoL is implemented with a Markov Chain model to ensure a more even experience. It isn't a straight RNG.
Personally I'm a little sad to see Riot try to remove all RNG from the game. It adds excitement to the game precisely because not everything can be predicted and planned for. Sometimes you have to play the odds and hope for the best (there is a reason most games use some sort of RNG mechanic such as dice or cards). That said I still think they should get rid of crit runes, mostly because they add hidden power. You don't even know if your opponent is using them unless you use a third party site/app.
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I don'T mind crit, though it's funny they don't mention it anywhere that it's not completely rng.
But comparing crit chance with skillshots and trying to validate crits place in league with that is just stupid.
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Yeah.... no one did that though dude.
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by the way the pseudo random on crits and bash and other things has always been there in dota. LoL switched to it some times ago.
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So how about them jungle changes?
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
I am super fucking excited for them
sounds awesome
I am sure the TL research team T.R.O.L.L.S. will be very quick to find the best way to play jungle once the changes go through
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EPT
