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[Patch 4.18] Sion Reborn General Discussion - Page 112

Forum Index > LoL General
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Volband
Profile Joined March 2011
Hungary6034 Posts
October 28 2014 14:04 GMT
#2221
It's already a bitch to siege sometimes.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
October 28 2014 14:25 GMT
#2222
There's also the 10 armour/MR, 10% MS buff while you're in your base. Worse thing being the MS buff although the resistances bonus is also inelegant (not to say gross) and uninspired, when Riot are so vocal about "invisible power" (look Sona's glowing green, it means people around her are harder to kill) they sure put some right there.
10% bonus MS is basically more than boots1 unless you're already over the cap, so for the slower/immoibile champions who already don't have it easy it's a worse thing than for the rest, on top of putting emphasis on really hard initiation to dive the t3, which is currently sorely lacking (I mean Malphite exists but that doesn't make him easier to fit in a draft than Ziggs/Braum/Yasuo/Nami).

The other issue for me is how hamfisted it is. To sum up there are changes:
- making splitpushing easier (runes, scuttlecrab)
- making splitpushing more potent (items to increase tower-killing power, improving minions)
- making splitpushing less interactive and harder to deal with (the swarmhost item that forces you to get out of position to find the portal or get perma-pushed)
- making diving harder (t2 shield, base aura, t3 punishing tanking it unless you can swap aggro in an enclosed area)
- making poking down towers more potent (DoT on hitting towers)
- making pushing/clearing harder (MR moved to HP to keep the same EHP while making MPen useless)

They could have done moderate stuff, but instead they push from one end to pull from the other, for team splitpushing and taking pot shots at towers without daring to actually fight.
When even recently they were talking about how they want the game to be about exciting fights and that it's why they don't want laning (and especially early levels) to influence the game too much. But in that case why help the defending team not need to fight, and give the sieging team tools to not need to fight either while making it harder if they decide to do it anyway?

(And I won't start about the whole clusterfuck that their "champions gain more stats per level early on, less on the later levels, overall the average gain remains the same" and what it's going to do to powercurve, smoothing and how early and midgame-oriented champions will get fucked over by that.)
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
October 28 2014 14:47 GMT
#2223
On October 28 2014 19:54 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2014 15:58 Sufficiency wrote:
The tournament format is OK, but should only be used as a supplement to a regular proleague style format. The existing Korean OGN format was fundamentally broken by strongly favouring strong teams who can advance past the group stage and play more games.

I mean come on, if a team can play only 3 games in group stage and be done for an entire freaking season is a broken system.

Also, like I have said before, BW used to run proleagues which are really no different from the LCS format. BW had OSL/MSL too, but that's difficult to replicate in LoL which plays in a group of 5.

in BW a player could only play 3 games and be done for the whole season in proleague.

I mean, LCS has a huge mess of problems. a step toward LCS without addressing them is a step backwards.


In BW you can play 0 games in a season. Because you are on the B team.

The team as a whole plays a lot of games due to proleague.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
October 28 2014 14:55 GMT
#2224
I feel like tower changes are a running gag at this point.
liftlift > tsm
droserin
Profile Joined September 2014
127 Posts
October 28 2014 15:00 GMT
#2225
On October 28 2014 23:25 Alaric wrote:
(And I won't start about the whole clusterfuck that their "champions gain more stats per level early on, less on the later levels, overall the average gain remains the same" and what it's going to do to powercurve, smoothing and how early and midgame-oriented champions will get fucked over by that.)

I thought it was lower at early levels and higher at later levels.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
October 28 2014 15:04 GMT
#2226
Uh... maybe. It'd at least make more sense in that having level advantage over your opponent wouldn't matter as much, if it goes like that. I thought I'd read on the original thread on their boards thay they gave more points early but maybe I misinterpreted it.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
October 28 2014 15:09 GMT
#2227
That seems to trivialize early laning even more.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
October 28 2014 15:17 GMT
#2228
Stat Growth Per Level
Champion base stats and stat growth per level adjusted to help reduce the impact of early level advantages

Roughly, characters will start the game with an additional 68% of their per level statistic compared to live.
Each level, characters will gain from 72 to 128% of their per level statistic compared to live, totalling to 1700% of your per level statistic.

In other words fuck everything you know about trading.Why isn't everything consistent that is so dumb.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
October 28 2014 15:19 GMT
#2229
On October 29 2014 00:09 Sufficiency wrote:
That seems to trivialize early laning even more.

Well that's the point. "Oh you picked Karma or Pantheon to fuck me before 6 and then try to roam/do stuff/snowball? Na sorry, snowball and acquiring a lead and bullying is bad mkay, you're not allowed to do that."

Well fuck you Riot, so much for diversity. But we already knew that.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
October 28 2014 15:22 GMT
#2230
Uh, sure you're 68% more durable or whatever at lvl 1 but Panth/Karma also has 68% more oomph in their stuff, right?
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
October 28 2014 15:22 GMT
#2231
Someone poke me when IEM tickets go on sale.
What is with this dearth of information...
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Zdrastochye
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
October 28 2014 15:24 GMT
#2232
Idk why you guys are complaining, I get more health to towerdive with at levels 2-3. Sounds good to me.
Hey! How you doin'?
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-28 15:28:49
October 28 2014 15:25 GMT
#2233
On October 29 2014 00:22 Osmoses wrote:
Uh, sure you're 68% more durable or whatever at lvl 1 but Panth/Karma also has 68% more oomph in their stuff, right?

Well the ap champs don't really get more damage out of more base stats.Only champs with total ad ratios get a damage increase early levels.Honestly all this does is make top lane literal hell.How do you kill a mundo or a maokai with this lol?

But with increased armor doubt there is a champion that does more damage compared to now.
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-28 15:29:56
October 28 2014 15:28 GMT
#2234
Pick GP, apply stacks.

edit: I dunno man, I wanna try it though.
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
Zdrastochye
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
October 28 2014 15:29 GMT
#2235
On October 29 2014 00:25 nafta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2014 00:22 Osmoses wrote:
Uh, sure you're 68% more durable or whatever at lvl 1 but Panth/Karma also has 68% more oomph in their stuff, right?

Well the ap champs don't really get more damage out of more base stats.Only champs with total ad ratios get a damage increase early levels.Honestly all this does is make top lane literal hell.How do you kill a mundo or a maokai with this lol?

But with increased armor doubt there is a champion that does more damage compared to now.


Yeah but nobody cares about top lane, islands aren't cool unless they're Pen Island.
Hey! How you doin'?
Alzadar
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada5009 Posts
October 28 2014 15:31 GMT
#2236
What happens if two Sions charge at each other?
I am the Town Medic.
Inflicted
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia18228 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-28 15:35:30
October 28 2014 15:34 GMT
#2237
Wouldn't the stat/level change make champs like Karma (with high early base damage) even stronger? Would be longer period where champions have lower health/armor/ad and won't be able to trade with champs like Karma. (unless I'm reading the changes wrong)

Bot lane is too ridiculous right now. Plain stupid that if you hit level 2 earlier and manipulate the waves properly, you can force a 30 CS advantage.
Liquipedia"Expert"
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-28 15:44:06
October 28 2014 15:41 GMT
#2238
^ na because if I read it wrong and it gives more stats to everyone, she doesn't get AP (same as Pantheon doesn't et bonus AD) but their opponents get more HP/armour (and for some MR) so it's better defensively.
Per level stat scaling is usually better defensively while leveling skills is better offensively. The latter isn't changed.

On October 29 2014 00:22 Osmoses wrote:
Uh, sure you're 68% more durable or whatever at lvl 1 but Panth/Karma also has 68% more oomph in their stuff, right?

To keep it brief (yes I can do that) it's bad for champions whose kit relies on early strength, compared to base stats, which is the case for Pantheon, Karma, Wukong, etc. in terms of laning. You can't leverage hitting a level first as much (in terms of pressure, not necessarily of pure "I have 60 more HP you die to the all-in"), people get more stats over the first few levels which mitigates a possible item advantage from your pressure a bit.

But more importantly it's grossly inelegant (even DotA has fixed stats growth, despite some wonkiness in how skills upgrade per level, see Ember Spirit's Searing Chains for example), and as someone said it puts a huge strain on players to basically relearn which timings and such could be changed in multiple match-ups from stats differences.
It violates a lot of Riot's heralded principles, which seems to be the most core of them all behind their decisions in the end.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
October 28 2014 15:59 GMT
#2239
On October 29 2014 00:31 Alzadar wrote:
What happens if two Sions charge at each other?

the awkward movement control of sion's ult causes them to miss each other and go speeding down the lane in opposite directions.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
October 28 2014 16:09 GMT
#2240
Guys, you aren't thinking big enough. Riot is trivializing individual play in effort to make League closer to Heroes of the Storm so TL picks it up!
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