EPTOn October 29 2014 00:31 Alzadar wrote:
What happens if two Sions charge at each other?
What happens if two Sions charge at each other?
they both stun eachother. similarly hecarim charging into sion gets stunned while sion gets knocked back.
[Patch 4.18] Sion Reborn General Discussion - Page 113
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
they both stun eachother. similarly hecarim charging into sion gets stunned while sion gets knocked back. | ||
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Vaporized
United States1471 Posts
Personally i cant wait to try the new jungle. i main jg and their constant changes to it are sometimes wierd, but always interesting. If the game stayed the same i would have moved on long ago. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
Also, I don't think armchairing these changes is meaningful. I've spent hours testing the PBE jungle and if you asked me for any predictions as to how it will shape the game I'd have to shrug. You can argue that maybe Riot is changing too much at once, but I'm personally excited by the changes. I like learning, it's a big part of why I enjoy competitive/cooperative games because good ones never run out of things to learn. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Yeah I didn't talk about the jungle changes because these have a much harder impact to measure. The ridiculous stuff about towers, for example, is much easier to assess, and you can also talk about their direction (however things turn out, they want to heavily incite sieging and discourage fighting/dives with what they're doing, and it's pretty obvious) and discuss it, or even disagree with it. Basically, they're making the game harder for you if you're ahead (see: killing dragon), and give you free stalling/power if you're behind, so you can catch up by playing passively (and they're also making it so these changes are less impactful if you splitpush). On top of that, while the natural progression of the game is "you go from being able to win fights, to being able to take these fights near/under towers so you can break into enemy territory/high ground", these changes are along the lines of "you get a lead to be able to reach the enemy tower and hit it", which creates less fights and less interaction. You take fights as the means to the tower-killing end, but if Riot wants to hit towers as the means to the same tower-killing end, well, it's pretty unidimensional. As for the inelegant design, it's subjective and contextual, but since we have existing stuff we can draw comparisons : - the closer you get to the enemy base, the more resilient towers are and the more damage they do. - the closer you get to the enemy base, without reaching the nexus quite yet, the more complex effects the towers gain. They have no relation to each other whatsoever so take a guess. Even to a newbie, the current situation is pretty straight-forward and easy to grasp, and once he learns not to die to towers he can work toward knowing when he can or cannot take them/dive them. In the second case even veterans like us will be confused. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On October 29 2014 01:40 Seuss wrote: "Elegance" in game design is subjective. There's nothing inherently inelegant about growth on a curve versus a line. Also, I don't think armchairing these changes is meaningful. I've spent hours testing the PBE jungle and if you asked me for any predictions as to how it will shape the game I'd have to shrug. You can argue that maybe Riot is changing too much at once, but I'm personally excited by the changes. I like learning, it's a big part of why I enjoy competitive/cooperative games because good ones never run out of things to learn. I prefer that they change huge amounts of things right now because once Jan 1 hits they need to have a stable game that they are basically just tuning. The problem that I continually see with these changes is they appear to have conflicting design goals/objectives. That has been, overwhelmingly, the issue with the jungle the past 2 seasons the lack of a focused goal (or just not pursuing a stated goal). | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Put more simply, give us better ways of splitpushing, especially to try and break high ground, and also ways to deal with splitpushing, so that it's both easier to use (esp. in soloQ, bringing diversity) while making it more dynamic (makes it better for spectators, and more "okay" to appear in pubs 'cause its less frustrating to deal with now). Don't force us to splitpush or siege/poke everytime by making most changes move exclusively toward that and move pretty far. The other issue is that while Riot say "we don't even know if all of that will ship through" we know full well that they've made up their mind and basically all of it will. That's how they work and you have to ignore what they say and look at what they actually did in past occurrences, which only serves to make people more distrustful (and thus grumpy) when they see Riot bust out their new enthusiastic ideas. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On October 29 2014 02:20 Sufficiency wrote: I have to agree that whatever the changes may be, they change the game and keep it fresh. This is exactly why Blizzard failed at on WC3, which IMO is a fantastic RTS game and had a lot of potential. The real problem was that there were no korean map makers to carry the game like there were in bw.I mean the tournaments in tft had the same maps for the entire lifespan of the game lol. Remaking the game just makes it easier for new people to jump in because the old stuff is irrelevant. | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
On October 29 2014 02:23 nafta wrote: The real problem was that there were no korean map makers to carry the game like there were in bw.I mean the tournaments in tft had the same maps for the entire lifespan of the game lol. Remaking the game just makes it easier for new people to jump in because the old stuff is irrelevant. That had nothing to do with map makers, and everything to do with organisations. There were really good mapmakers around, but the only organisation that reaches out to mapmakers is kespa. And Kespa did not care because wc3 was dead in korea after the map manipulation scandal. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On October 29 2014 01:56 Alaric wrote: Na the structure/lane changes pretty much all go toward the same direction. The issue being that they're hamfisting that harder than whatever sandwiches did protect placement on that Hawai 5000 video. Tweaking is fine, but when they make so many different changes all so strong toward the same goal it's not tweaking the game, it's rebuilding the way it's played and dictating it to you over letting players figure it out. Put more simply, give us better ways of splitpushing, especially to try and break high ground, and also ways to deal with splitpushing, so that it's both easier to use (esp. in soloQ, bringing diversity) while making it more dynamic (makes it better for spectators, and more "okay" to appear in pubs 'cause its less frustrating to deal with now). Don't force us to splitpush or siege/poke everytime by making most changes move exclusively toward that and move pretty far. The other issue is that while Riot say "we don't even know if all of that will ship through" we know full well that they've made up their mind and basically all of it will. That's how they work and you have to ignore what they say and look at what they actually did in past occurrences, which only serves to make people more distrustful (and thus grumpy) when they see Riot bust out their new enthusiastic ideas. Stacking dragon buffs vs. the other changes is a pretty obvious example of what I am talking about. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
Everyone knew this, but Blizzard was too chicken to make dramatic changes including completely refresh the map pool instead of swapping maps out one at a time (which does nothing because those new maps will be just filtered out). I do have to point out that WC3 was on the old model of sell and forget. Blizzard did not want to take risks because it would not make extra money for them. If WC3 was on the F2P model or the subscription model it may have turned out differently for Blizzard. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
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RouaF
France4120 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On October 29 2014 02:48 Alzadar wrote: IMO, complex game mechanics should be avoided unless truly necessary. e.g. instead of a weird buffet of effects for each different tower, just make towers stronger... Something that often gets glossed over in arguments about complexity versus simplicity is discoverability. You can have a very thoughtful design for something mechanically, but if the player can't easily discern what they need to know through their interactions and interfaces with that design then there's a problem. This is where UX concepts become important. To a very large extent the complexity of your solution doesn't matter to a new player as much as how you signal to them what's going on. The current "Towers just get stronger" system has been flawed for ages because Towers looked practically identical, there only visual sign the tower is strong are the arbitrary numbrs you read when you click on one. This wasn't a huge flaw because the difference in tower strength wasn't so significant as to seriously trip up new players, but it's still something that was and isn't effectively communicated to players. The new system is more complex, but there are clear visual indicators to go along with it. Discoverability has been on my mind because Civ:BE is loaded with issues in that department. So much of what makes a game newbie friendly isn't its mechanics but how it communicates them to players. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
On October 29 2014 03:17 RouaF wrote: what the hell I wanted to sit in masters waiting for the end of the season but you have only 10 days before you decay ?! Will I drop tier if I don't play ? Yes. And you better keep your master position, because that and the challenger icons are the only ones which looks nice, the rest is pure shit. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On October 29 2014 04:09 Alaric wrote: How do I get wood? Red Card Katarina? | ||
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RouaF
France4120 Posts
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MagnusWolf
United States483 Posts
On October 29 2014 04:50 RouaF wrote: meh I played a game and lost :D better than decay I guess. Anyone know what that guy is ? http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=jiolpasdmklsamk he played a shitty vayne and flamed like an arse since his mid was taken -_- previous summoner name SK watdefox | ||
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