I thought they realized making overly complicated solutions to simple problems only breeds even more problems that then they fixed with even more complicated solutions until no one has any clue what the fuck is going on.

Then they go and make Warmogs into Heart. I don't get it...

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

October 08 2014 19:26 GMT

#1503

Warmog's Armor has now literally followed the exact same balance path as Heart of Tarrasque, lmao.

I don't see why you'd need something as clunky as Zz'rot Portal to help non-DPS heroes push towers when making aura items affect creeps accomplishes the exact same thing.

Gahlo

United States35172 Posts

October 08 2014 19:27 GMT

#1504

On October 09 2014 04:13 St3MoR wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/Thooorin/posts/877492295595030

Thorin explaining himself about some crap he said about Poland, he also says

Show nested quote +

that should be some interesting drama :D

I fell asleep trying to read it. Way too verbose.

Alaric

France45622 Posts

October 08 2014 19:31 GMT

#1505

... I just got cancer as soon as I read the first change, the dragon one.

Fuck's sake, Riot. You sure about that "clarity, simplicity" design goal?
That's such a dumb fuckingly stupid way of going about things. The hell.

You know what? I feel like Riot communicating about what they intend to do is even worse, because they're doing such idiotic stuff (not talking about numbers or anything, but just from a purely design point of view), and they make it look like they'd care or discuss about it, but preseason 4 already showed really well that it's pretty much set in stone and they at best look for validation.
So you just get to rage earlier when they talk about their stuff but you know nothing will improve from there, really.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

October 08 2014 19:31 GMT

#1506

To be fair, Dragon giving a buff is symmetrical to Baron, so that's fine.

The fact that it's permanent is pretty WTF though.

wei2coolman

United States60033 Posts

October 08 2014 19:32 GMT

#1507

On October 09 2014 04:31 Alaric wrote:
... I just got cancer as soon as I read the first change, the dragon one.

Fuck's sake, Riot. You sure about that "clarity, simplicity" design goal?
That's such a dumb fuckingly stupid way of going about things. The hell.

Something something more tower changes.

Numy

South Africa35471 Posts

October 08 2014 19:36 GMT

#1508

Come now everyone knew when they made that blog it was all bullshit.

They basically making dragon like baron except it doesn't give global gold anymore and the buff is permanent. I guess it makes some sense to make it a buff but the other stuff is against strategic diversity which they said they wanted. I always felt Dragon being a pile of gold was dumb in the first place so this change is more "LoLy" in a way.

LaNague

Germany9118 Posts

October 08 2014 19:38 GMT

#1509

spend 1 season introducing anti snowball stuff, next season make dragon give permanent buffs.

This logic

Goumindong

United States3529 Posts

October 08 2014 19:41 GMT

#1510

ZZ'rot portal is going to be the absolute worst item for the game.

Stack them for hilarious tower pushes? Yup (realistically a tank top/jungle/support all want this item)

Single most powerful effect for tower pushing as a team or alone? (because you can pop it right after the enemy spends its CD's clearing waves) Yup

Allows DPS champions to backdoor easily with a single item? Yup

Negates the entire concept and advantage of wave manipulation? Yup!

This is going to be bonkers when it hits live

Fusilero

United Kingdom50293 Posts

October 08 2014 19:42 GMT

#1511

League of ZZ'rot portal doesn't have the same ring as league of cleavers though

LaNague

Germany9118 Posts

October 08 2014 19:43 GMT

#1512

yeah this item was suspicious for me as well, right now there is a lot of strategy in forming waves and who goes where to clear the waves and wether or not he makes it push or not.

But a creep spanwing item would break a lot of that, unless its useless like that promotion item.

Numy

South Africa35471 Posts

October 08 2014 19:46 GMT

#1513

Yango said it's basically like necrobook but specifically for pushing unlike what necrobook offers you. Kind of make sense since they copied Heart they trying to copy necrobook but without the ability to control units it becomes some bastadized version of it. It will most likely be overpowered preseason then nerfed and never seen again. The concept itself seems a bit suspect as well as giving good teamfighters the items to splitpush effectively means you never want to pick splitpushing champions.

Sufficiency

Canada23833 Posts

October 08 2014 19:46 GMT

#1514

That ZZrot seems like a reasonable replacement of Ohmwrecker.

wei2coolman

United States60033 Posts

October 08 2014 19:47 GMT

#1515

Jesus christ, why can't riot learn from blizzard? Swarmhost are toxic as fuck, why introduce it in league?

Sufficiency

Canada23833 Posts

October 08 2014 19:47 GMT

#1516

On October 09 2014 04:27 Gahlo wrote:

Show nested quote +

I fell asleep trying to read it. Way too verbose.

My impression from that post is that he is indeed racist.

Alaric

France45622 Posts

October 08 2014 19:49 GMT

#1517

Yes, it's the permanent, and stacking, thing, that sounds contrary to their stated "design goals". I mean, in terms of clarity you just have to look at the jungle which will always look complicated and hard to grasp to beginners, even without the buffs (without them I guess you could sum up the jungle by "monsters give gold, so sending someone there instead of sharing a lane gives the team more gold overall, plus since the enemy rarely has vision of him he can ambush them!").

But when dragon benefits (gold and exp) translate into very tangible benefits (more items and levels, which you can directly see), then although it's arguably worse for snowballing (win a dragon fight, be stronger for the next, unless you're facing a strong timing team or get outscaled fast), it's also very clear and intuitive for people.
With a stacking buff, unless it's a stats stick (in which case it's really uninspiring and uninteresting, as I'd rather have the gold to choose cool items to buy that suit me better, for example), then it's a lot less tangible, and while a gold disparity can be made up for (trading dragon for a tower, using a pick comp to get kills/contesting buffs in the jungle to close the gap before the next dragon spawn, etc.), depending on what the buff is it can pretty easily become an issue.

I'll keep that stance: play around the map (tower mechanics, map layout, the stats and location of jungle camps) for your "macro" changes, and use items if you want to affect stats or "micro" changes. Rely on actives and auras for "intangible" benefits over complicated mechanics.
Shape the power timings and different phases of the game around item prices and cost-efficiency, rather than tie it to slot-efficiency to increase the importance of leads and point the game toward late.