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On October 02 2014 03:45 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 03:34 overt wrote:On October 02 2014 03:23 wei2coolman wrote:On October 02 2014 03:21 overt wrote:
So I took a break from League for awhile but before I stopped playing Renekton was super in meta and played competitively. Upon coming back he isn't played at all. Like, not even in solo queue. When I picked Renekton I even had people pissed at me and tell me he sucks. I was just curious as to why he fell out of meta? I looked and he didn't get changed at all so did the top lane pool just change to stuff that wasn't as good for him? I know Maokai/Alistar and the like got popular against them but I can't imagine Renekton has a terrible time against them I guess they just have more team fight presence than him.
I figured the rise of every top laner taking TP would've been a big contributing factor since Renekton really likes Ignite but I just wanted some clarification. Unless the wiki is missing nerfs or something that happened to him Renekton should still be a solo queue god at the very least. He's still insanely strong in soloqueue, problem is game is all about lategame now, and Renekton's lategame in comparison is just not that great. Oh that makes a lot of sense actually. If they make the game less late game focused in S5 he'll probably make a huge resurgence then. He still shits on people top lane at least. Thanks. he got nerfed and his itemization got nerfed
The only 'nerf' he got was in 4.5 when he got this:
Stats
Base armor increased to 19.2 from 15.2.
Dominus
Bonus health changed to 200 / 400 / 800 from 300 / 450 / 600.
Damage per second changed to 30 / 60 / 120 from 40 / 70 / 100.
Which, again, was in 4.5 and he continued to be played until whichever patch it was that caused Trist/Kog to resurge. Those nerfs to him don't seem crazy though. Dominus is still a good spell early and in most match ups you can punish crazy hard pre/post-6 the ult is just icing on the cake or opens up possibilities for you to get a kill.
As for itemization changes I don't know what got changed that made Renekton weaker so I'll take your word for it because I don't feel like reading through 10 pages of patch notes.
edit:
On October 02 2014 03:50 aurawashere wrote:
more like TP got buffed which made laning a lot more easier + many top laners were capable of beating him/going even [ryze/lulu/gragas/mundo/irelia]. renekton did not get nerfed and at all and his itemization did not get touched either[sunfire dealing slightly less dmg was inconsequential because most top laners were ap based]
Yeah I figured TP's high usage had a lot to do with it. Those champions you mentioned are fairly significant too because all of them offer more than Renekton does when laning ends so if champions like Ryze or Irelia "go even" with Renekton in lane they've basically won the lane.
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The itemization they're talking about was the nerf to Sunfire, which again wasn't much of a nerf.
It was the Teleport change that did it. You pick Renekton to win lane, and the Teleport change made it too hard to win lane.
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On October 02 2014 02:30 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 01:14 Slusher wrote:On October 01 2014 23:30 jaybrundage wrote:
Rammus is in a decent spot. Very strong early ganking. Good Dmg early levels. And late game he becomes a good front line tank. He might get a reduction in his Q dmg I believe as its rather high at level 1. Oh and the QoL change was also a decent buff. While not huge definitely helped him. it's not, in fact a lot of Rammus specialists put a 2nd point in Q before maxing E, because it's something stupid like a 100% damage increase, at rank 2 it does pretty nice damage. going from 100 -> 150 isn't a 100% dmg increase I've never heard of anyone taking lvl2Q on standard jungle Rammus before maxing W and E before
I have tried it I don't think the extra damage made a difference just slowed down getting max taunt.
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On October 02 2014 03:59 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 03:45 kongoline wrote:On October 02 2014 03:34 overt wrote:On October 02 2014 03:23 wei2coolman wrote:On October 02 2014 03:21 overt wrote:
So I took a break from League for awhile but before I stopped playing Renekton was super in meta and played competitively. Upon coming back he isn't played at all. Like, not even in solo queue. When I picked Renekton I even had people pissed at me and tell me he sucks. I was just curious as to why he fell out of meta? I looked and he didn't get changed at all so did the top lane pool just change to stuff that wasn't as good for him? I know Maokai/Alistar and the like got popular against them but I can't imagine Renekton has a terrible time against them I guess they just have more team fight presence than him.
I figured the rise of every top laner taking TP would've been a big contributing factor since Renekton really likes Ignite but I just wanted some clarification. Unless the wiki is missing nerfs or something that happened to him Renekton should still be a solo queue god at the very least. He's still insanely strong in soloqueue, problem is game is all about lategame now, and Renekton's lategame in comparison is just not that great. Oh that makes a lot of sense actually. If they make the game less late game focused in S5 he'll probably make a huge resurgence then. He still shits on people top lane at least. Thanks. he got nerfed and his itemization got nerfed The only 'nerf' he got was in 4.5 when he got this: Stats Base armor increased to 19.2 from 15.2. Dominus Bonus health changed to 200 / 400 / 800 from 300 / 450 / 600. Damage per second changed to 30 / 60 / 120 from 40 / 70 / 100. Which, again, was in 4.5 and he continued to be played until whichever patch it was that caused Trist/Kog to resurge. Those nerfs to him don't seem crazy though. Dominus is still a good spell early and in most match ups you can punish crazy hard pre/post-6 the ult is just icing on the cake or opens up possibilities for you to get a kill. As for itemization changes I don't know what got changed that made Renekton weaker so I'll take your word for it because I don't feel like reading through 10 pages of patch notes.
I don't think it was a nerf or items that screwed him tbh. The nerf did hurt his ability to go full retard at level 6, but he was still seeing play post nerf.
The biggest changes were the changes to meta due to buffs/changes. Maokai + Alistar change, pretty much relegated him a tier lower, along with the popularity of insanely powerful lategame ADC's, sort of forced you to play a more useful lategame role, either by choosing utility like lulu, or a lot of damage + tankiness, like Ryze.
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United States15536 Posts
As the obviously superior nooblord pen person, I am in Gold. Finally. That's what happens when you love games more than post count. GG.
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On October 02 2014 03:59 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 03:45 kongoline wrote:On October 02 2014 03:34 overt wrote:On October 02 2014 03:23 wei2coolman wrote:On October 02 2014 03:21 overt wrote:
So I took a break from League for awhile but before I stopped playing Renekton was super in meta and played competitively. Upon coming back he isn't played at all. Like, not even in solo queue. When I picked Renekton I even had people pissed at me and tell me he sucks. I was just curious as to why he fell out of meta? I looked and he didn't get changed at all so did the top lane pool just change to stuff that wasn't as good for him? I know Maokai/Alistar and the like got popular against them but I can't imagine Renekton has a terrible time against them I guess they just have more team fight presence than him.
I figured the rise of every top laner taking TP would've been a big contributing factor since Renekton really likes Ignite but I just wanted some clarification. Unless the wiki is missing nerfs or something that happened to him Renekton should still be a solo queue god at the very least. He's still insanely strong in soloqueue, problem is game is all about lategame now, and Renekton's lategame in comparison is just not that great. Oh that makes a lot of sense actually. If they make the game less late game focused in S5 he'll probably make a huge resurgence then. He still shits on people top lane at least. Thanks. he got nerfed and his itemization got nerfed The only 'nerf' he got was in 4.5 when he got this: Stats Base armor increased to 19.2 from 15.2. Dominus Bonus health changed to 200 / 400 / 800 from 300 / 450 / 600. Damage per second changed to 30 / 60 / 120 from 40 / 70 / 100. Which, again, was in 4.5 and he continued to be played until whichever patch it was that caused Trist/Kog to resurge. Those nerfs to him don't seem crazy though. Dominus is still a good spell early and in most match ups you can punish crazy hard pre/post-6 the ult is just icing on the cake or opens up possibilities for you to get a kill. As for itemization changes I don't know what got changed that made Renekton weaker so I'll take your word for it because I don't feel like reading through 10 pages of patch notes. edit: Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 03:50 aurawashere wrote:
more like TP got buffed which made laning a lot more easier + many top laners were capable of beating him/going even [ryze/lulu/gragas/mundo/irelia]. renekton did not get nerfed and at all and his itemization did not get touched either[sunfire dealing slightly less dmg was inconsequential because most top laners were ap based] Yeah I figured TP's high usage had a lot to do with it. Those champions you mentioned are fairly significant too because all of them offer more than Renekton does when laning ends so if champions like Ryze or Irelia "go even" with Renekton in lane they've basically won the lane.
both randuin and sunfire nerfs on top of dominus nerfs were a big hit, shyvanna stopped being played just because of items nerf meanwhile renekton got hit even harder, that plus tp buffs meant his bully times were over
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On October 02 2014 03:53 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 03:25 ketchup wrote:On October 02 2014 03:13 wei2coolman wrote:On October 02 2014 03:08 ketchup wrote:On October 02 2014 02:23 onlywonderboy wrote:
So I've played a couple games on the new Soraka and I think I like her overall. She seems more fun than the old Soraka and I really, really like Equinox. Although I wish it popped like a quarter second sooner or was a little wider because it's quite easy for the enemy to just walk out of it (seems like a better follow up tool than initiation but it puts it in a weird place during laning phase. Also the range of the heal is painfully short. Basically need to be standing on top of champions in order to heal them so healing a tank during a team fight can get rough and make positioning rough.
How have people been building her? Not sure what to grab after standard support items. Yo, when are you going to play ranked so you can carry me to gold? Wait, OWB is in gold? I thought he was perennially stuck in silver/bronze? No idea. I just want more people to duo/struggle queue with lol Haha I was stuck in Silver last season and have played exactly one ranked game this season. I'm just playing normals to try and shake off the rust but I'm down to duo/drag people down to my level.
I just started playing ranked recently for the end of the year rewards, but I think climbing past silver should be attainable despite how little I play overall. The biggest issue I see is that in solo queue, losing a game where your team is winning is really easy as the winning team. I feel like the large majority of my games so far have been winnable, but have been lost due to one reason or another. So, I just have to figure out during the games, what is causing that disconnect in why we keep losing or what is going wrong. Duo queue makes this easier, as I can usually ask what is wrong, or what is needed.
On October 02 2014 04:04 AsmodeusXI wrote:
As the obviously superior nooblord pen person, I am in Gold. Finally. That's what happens when you love games more than post count. GG.
Getting diamond next right? Don't settle for gold!
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Renekton was never that good unless you crushed lane and crushing lane just isn't possible post tp nerfs, the randuin nerfs don't matter, they suck, but pretty much every other randuin building champion is better than Renekton at the point in the game where the Randuin nerfs matter.
+1 point to everyone that said tp
-1 internet point to items
even for the one guy who went with the lvl6 dominus nerf (even though that also was not that big)
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He was still in the competitive meta when TP was seen everywhere, it has nothing to do with that (it made a bunch of lanes easier but that didn't matter too much).
The stall meta around Ziggs and other good wave clear mids made teams get to late game so he wasn't as desirable because these picks made his midgame hard/impossible to leverage.
Then Riot shat on the tank itemisation (Banshee's shield cd, since SV had been hit hard way earlier, Randuin's slow, FH's aura) and the next patch nerfed BT hard while buffing IE, allowing IE carries (and especially Tristana) to come back because with 2 items they wreck you until you hit your 3rd or even 4th (and by that point they have LW).
At that point most desirable off laners were full tanks (Mundo, pre-nerf Alistar) or splitpushers (Nidalee) because you can't build bruiser anymore and expect to get away with it. Renekton's outclassed if he has to build full tank, even by Shyvana (who doesn't provide cc/utility so we don't see her).
Irelia is seen some because she's kind of an assassin that's harder to itemise against for carries (since QSS or BV won't protect from her like they do from Zed/Ahri), who tends to do well against popular picks (I was surprised but she actually beats Maokai) so she can have her place in a midgame comp, but if you're looking to protect your Tristana she doesn't fit that role well, and Ryze, well... is Ryze.
Irelia also provides more utility/lockdown than burst now that E max is being used against match-ups like Ryze or when you have to 1v2, providing 2 seconds of stun when midgame teamfights start.
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shyvana stopped being played because she literally got shit on in lane so hard by everyone except mundo and mundo in most scenarios is a lot more useful than shyvana
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idk I attrubte Renekton seeing some play top for a while after tp buff to pro's being overly safe when it comes to change lag, he was pretty fucking useless in most games where I saw him get picked after the change, he either took ignite and got shat on late game (see:Marin) or took teleport and went even in lane to champions that outscale him (see:every champion in the game that's ever been picked in competitive)
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I could see Renekton coming back in a world where taking Teleport top lane wasn't 100% mandatory.
He can still win lane against people who don't have Teleport.
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not being able to run ignite himself really kills a lot of his pressure, as does teleporting back to lane on death even if it does work
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Today's PBE changes:
Ezreal
Rising Spell Force (Passive) increases Ezreal's attack speed by 6 seconds up from 5 seconds
Mystic Shot (Q) AD ratio increased to 1.1 from 1.0
Tristana
Attack speed per level lowered to 2.5% from 4%
Rapid Fire (Q) Duration lowered to 5 seconds from 7 seconds
Rapid Fire (Q) attack speed bonus increased to 30/50/70/90/110 from 30/45/60/75/90
Lucian
Relentless Pursuit (E) [seems to now have a mana cost again]
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Lucian E always had mana cost. Just had no mana cost at level 5.
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On October 02 2014 05:03 iCanada wrote:
Lucian E always had mana cost. Just had no mana cost at level 5.
It hasn't had a manacost since 4.12
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On October 02 2014 03:34 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 03:23 wei2coolman wrote:On October 02 2014 03:21 overt wrote:
So I took a break from League for awhile but before I stopped playing Renekton was super in meta and played competitively. Upon coming back he isn't played at all. Like, not even in solo queue. When I picked Renekton I even had people pissed at me and tell me he sucks. I was just curious as to why he fell out of meta? I looked and he didn't get changed at all so did the top lane pool just change to stuff that wasn't as good for him? I know Maokai/Alistar and the like got popular against them but I can't imagine Renekton has a terrible time against them I guess they just have more team fight presence than him.
I figured the rise of every top laner taking TP would've been a big contributing factor since Renekton really likes Ignite but I just wanted some clarification. Unless the wiki is missing nerfs or something that happened to him Renekton should still be a solo queue god at the very least. He's still insanely strong in soloqueue, problem is game is all about lategame now, and Renekton's lategame in comparison is just not that great. Oh that makes a lot of sense actually. If they make the game less late game focused in S5 he'll probably make a huge resurgence then. He still shits on people top lane at least. Thanks.
Yes, as strange as it sounds it was the AD itemization changes which brought about the end of Renekton top lane. He is still just fine up there but usually people pick later game champions to deal with the fact that all AD's peak later; an early win in top lane is less translatable to tower pushing/pressure.
The hit here was two fold. 1) No early BT means no strong tower pushing early and 2) no early BT means no early tower pushing champions which were good with BT
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Just to chime in a little, in my opinion Renekton's biggest strength was that his ult at lvl 6 was just totally crazy and he could allin dive anyone and it was practically a free kill or insane deny of farm especially combined with his extremely potent pre 6 harrass game. With the nerfs to ult and sunfire(his first buy), his lvl 6 allin and early game in general are hit hard. Another thing worth mentioning is that currently AD isn't really in a good spot for toplane and most of the competitive toplaners are AP champions, which in my opinion has a lot to do with how shitty the AD-based defensive itemization is in comparison to things like Rod of Ages, Zhonya's Hourglass, Abyssal Scepter and more.
In addition to this, in my opinion you want as little physical damage in your team in general as possible, because it's much more beneficial if you force the enemy to build magic resistance instead. A small reason for this is how Zhonya's Hourglass is always built anyway even against magic damage. In addition, mres doesn't help against tower damage and you want your AD carry to deal as much damage as possible. It's not uncommon at all when your team is 4 magical and ADC that when the enemy team builds full mres, the AD carry just ends up hardcarrying due to the enemies being unable to itemize properly against him. This shift in team strategy completely eliminates Renekton's value in the lategame as a huge 300 armor carry AD diver / zoner when all the magic damage just completely blows him up if he itemizes like that.
and darn, that's a heavy nerf to tristana's lategame. In my opinion her lategame should have been kept intact with the nerfs instead concentrated on her earlygame power, but oh well.
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Is it just me or is Rammus taunt super bugged right now?
I've just started playing him (have 3 games now) and 90% of the time when I taunt someone who doesn't have tenacity it feels like it's only taunting them for about 1 second instead of 2.25
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On October 02 2014 05:36 ArchAngelSC wrote:
Is it just me or is Rammus taunt super bugged right now?
I've just started playing him (have 3 games now) and 90% of the time when I taunt someone who doesn't have tenacity it feels like it's only taunting them for about 1 second instead of 2.25
62% winrate, sure is bugged.
probably just you.
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EPT
