EPT[Patch 4.17] Soraka/Viktor General Discussion - Page 37
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On October 02 2014 08:14 JazzVortical wrote: Curious, I'd be interested in hearing why you think Ahri is well designed. I get Zed. I think Ahri/Zed are flashy, high skill assassins that require a good sense of timing/positioning/aim to deal all their damage. Compare to say, assassin-build Pantheon/Vi and you can see why Ahri/Zed are more exciting to watch/have more opportunity for counterplay. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On October 02 2014 07:18 IamPryda wrote: no gragas though..... rip fat man and I believe riven mid was pretty common but I don't recall much syndra in season 3 Speaking of, were the nerfs really that hard that everybody just dropped playing him? | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
On September 30 2014 17:18 krndandaman wrote: also as an adc I seem to be really bad vs nami supports. for some reason whenever I face a nami I always get outtraded so i just play far back. even if they fuck up and lose a trade nami sustain is ridiculous. any tips against nami or is she just broken right now fuckkkk thisssss nami owns me so hard everytime. i just feel so .... zoned | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
anyone else having problems? also gragas is still a decent jungler he's just not top Elise/Lee/Kha (maybe j4?) tier so he's not played in pros and people copy, his laning is kinda bad now though zz he's kinda like rumble where if people force trades his trading fucks up your cs and you just slowly lose also if we are talking about not the top lane nerfs but the nerfs since s3 worlds Gragas? than rip .9 ratio Q 1.0 ration ulti and 80% uptime % damage reduction LOL fuck that hero | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On October 02 2014 08:39 ComaDose wrote: fuckkkk thisssss nami owns me so hard everytime. i just feel so .... zoned 1. Watch for bubble patterns. Do they try to always drop them on you? Behind you in case you try to run? In front in case you try to get up her carry's face? 2. W bounce range is farther than cast range. As a result when fighting her 1v1, if they are a good player, fight with the bounce range in mind and not the target range as she'll just heal herself and splash you in the face. 3. E slow makes bubbles stupid easy to hit. If you can find a time where E gets wasted you have a good window to start trouble. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On October 02 2014 08:14 JazzVortical wrote: Curious, I'd be interested in hearing why you think Ahri is well designed. I get Zed. I don't remember her being picked either. She only really rose to prominence after the LB nerf. Before that, she was a niche pick at best. Curious why you get Zed more than Ahri. I mean, I think Zed is probably designed as well as you can design the Melee AD Manaless Assassin in LOL, but I'd say that design plan doesn't really work well in LoL. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On October 02 2014 08:48 krndandaman wrote: also I feel like I'm the only one who didn't mind old AP nid/gragas  maybe it's because I played them alot that I didn't really have a hard time facing them either. I like the old versions alot more than their current counterparts either way.I actually prefer pre rework Nid to what is in the game now, she was super fucking strong but 1 dimentional made ffor an interesting hero, and full range spears are hype. but still fuck unkillable killing machine Gragas | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
On October 02 2014 08:57 cLutZ wrote: Curious why you get Zed more than Ahri. I mean, I think Zed is probably designed as well as you can design the Melee AD Manaless Assassin in LOL, but I'd say that design plan doesn't really work well in LoL. Hey I'm with you on that. I think everyone should have mana, but like you said, Zed is good in his area. It's also pretty clear what you do vs him. The thing I don't get about Ahri is that she is this assassin mage hybrid beast. She has the wave clear and poke ability of a mage (now comes extra cheap!), but the stupidly high mobility of an assassin. I also think her CC is too strong for an assassin. I also don't like her "When I'm in your vicinity you die" abilities, but that was mitigated by the Charm change. | ||
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
They need mobility in order to move around their target. These traits thematically fit an assassin, and ahri has these. The problem in LoL is that you can't do that without having items or having enough base damage that you're OP. So if you can't farm or make sure that the other person can't stop you from farming, then there's a slight problem. There's roaming, sure, but trying to make roaming the standard way to play a champion (where kills are situational and there's no other way to farm) is pretty hard. Talon, if fed, can have a massive impact on teams because a lot of his damage is aoe. Ahri has damage in aoe which can be used for farming, and takes mana regen without it harming her overall, making her aoe damage ability usable on waves. Talon is melee and can't spam rake, making it less useful on waves and harder for him to farm at all. Assassins need to be risky by nature, but Ahri and even Zed are just too safe. Leblanc suffered from the same problem, though the silence removal helped. Given which champs Riot likes to be in play, the philosophy seems to be that assassins can be safe early on, while their squishiness comes into play later. Ahri has a few problems here. Because she's ranged , she's much safer than someone like Zed, who has to be close to their target to be doing damage. The other problem is that Ahri has auto spells, or spells that do the work themselves, while being aoe. She can stay at a comfortable range while applying damage, which is counter to the design of assassins. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On October 02 2014 11:49 cLutZ wrote: I thought the point of Ahri was for her to be a hybrid. Real assassins dont work in LOL because they are too unstable. Like Talon and Fizz and Pre-Rework Leblanc. ??? this is false, assassins work fine if you play them properly | ||
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Velocirapture
United States983 Posts
On October 02 2014 11:50 Frolossus wrote: ??? this is false, assassins work fine if you play them properly I am pretty sure he means they will always be too strong or too weak, hence the examples. I don't agree that they can't be healthy for the game, I just don't think they should be able to do it all themselves. Assassins should require pick opportunities or combos with allied abilities to be a threat in team fights. The whole 100-0 while you are silenced and teleport/stealth to safety was too much and changed. The <5s CD trickster is probably also too much for Fizz but we will see. If they did anything right with Yasuo it was the ult and how much he depends on allied knock-ups to reach his full power. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On October 02 2014 11:59 Velocirapture wrote: I am pretty sure he means they will always be too strong or too weak, hence the examples. I don't agree that they can't be healthy for the game, I just don't think they should be able to do it all themselves. Assassins should require pick opportunities or combos with allied abilities to be a threat in team fights. The whole 100-0 while you are silenced and teleport/stealth to safety was too much and changed. The <5s CD trickster is probably also too much for Fizz but we will see. If they did anything right with Yasuo it was the ult and how much he depends on allied knock-ups to reach his full power. yasuo's wall is more of an issue than any of the other mechanics i think | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On October 02 2014 11:59 Velocirapture wrote: I am pretty sure he means they will always be too strong or too weak, hence the examples. I don't agree that they can't be healthy for the game, I just don't think they should be able to do it all themselves. Assassins should require pick opportunities or combos with allied abilities to be a threat in team fights. The whole 100-0 while you are silenced and teleport/stealth to safety was too much and changed. The <5s CD trickster is probably also too much for Fizz but we will see. If they did anything right with Yasuo it was the ult and how much he depends on allied knock-ups to reach his full power. That was my point, mostly. The thing is, Trickster, IMO is the best part of Fizz's kit, the problem for me is the QW combo. In LOL, I don't think targeted spells on assassins work at all really because carries are generally squishy. If some weird champion like Xerath was a "pure assassin" and he basically just had a bunch of spells like his ult that were on a long cooldown, that might work, but the ability to go 1-for-1 when you choose who each 1 is is an issue for this game because the "carries" in this game are Karthus and Kog Maw, not Malphite and Olaf. | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
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