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Azir available in the US too.
On September 16 2014 23:55 Alzadar wrote:I feel like Talon has always held a place where you don't see him much, but when you do he's scary as fuck. And unlike other assassins who get fed and blow people up, Talon gets fed and blows up your whole goddamn team because half his damage is AoE. I'd sooner see a reduction of the silence to 0.5s than a total change, because he is an exciting champion if nothing else. Random thought: would Talon be stronger or weaker if his ult gave him a big tenacity buff instead of stealth? Show nested quote +On September 16 2014 23:46 Kupon3ss wrote:
But that's the whole character design of assassins, to QWER and assassinate you. In the grand scheme of things nerfing and deprecating old characters while continually creating op and exciting new things like yasuo isn't a bad way to go and lifts a lot of the burden off the balance team. Can you really say this is the case? Just looking at some random All Stars game as examples: SKT vs OMG: 7 champions post-Leona, 9 champions pre-Leona (inclusive) TPA vs FNC: 8 champions post-Leona, 8 champions pre-Leona C9 vs OMG: 8 champions post-Leona, 8 champions pre-Leona I use Leona since I started on Leona patch, easiest to judge. I think about 60% of champions are pre-Leona.
You're pretty much right, 64% of champs are pre-Leona. The current midpoint is between Swain and Lux, if I counted correctly..
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
I just played 2 custom games just to try him out and I'm still wondering how to effectively use his W>E dash. Seems pretty good but as I said, I'll stick with playing him as an AP mage.
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all stars was a few months ago when 66% of the champions are pre-leona
by your own data we can see if pre leona/post leona champs are being picked similar amounts, then post leona champs are, in fact, twice as likely individually to be picked since 1/2 the champions are coming from 33% of the pool while the other half are from 66% of the pool.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
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I think Talon has too much damage. His level 6 can legit 100-0 you where most other assassins can't.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
You go Sufficiency, show that MonteChristo what insight means!
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I legit think his level 6 burst is an anomaly.
Most mid laners can (70-80)-0 burst a squishy mid laner in the best case scenario (Zed, Ahri, Veigar, etc) at level 6 without going back to buy once. Talon can E and straight up kill you.
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On September 16 2014 23:46 Alzadar wrote:
Wait are people going to start complaining about "power decline"? That's too ironic IMO.
I mean. Talon was pretty much unchanged for like 2 seasons without much issues, and now they decide to nerf him because he's become too strong? That's a power decline.
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Assuming ArPen marks, AD quints, Talon will have something like 25 bonus AD.
At level 6 he has 68.6 base AD, 440 base damage via his spells, a 4 bonus AD ratio, and 3% dama amplification.
So he'll do (440 + 100 + (68.6+25) x2) x 1.03 ~= 750 damage, assuming E-aa-Q-W-R (he'd gain 7-8 damage per auto during Rake's slow).
Even with Ignite, that's not enough to kill most mages at level 6, and that'd be assuming he deals true damge to them.
Adding masteries he'd do a bit over 800 damage (3% from the 21th point, ~2.5% from executioner assuming half the damage is done while under 50%, and 3% total from expose weakness and weaving masteries combined), again assuming true damage.
Most mages will have 40+ armour at level 6, meaning with runes (and maybe masteries) they'll still have around 30 once the ArPen is factored in, around 25% damage reduction.
How do you get a 100-0 unless they let you auto them 3-4 times more just to be sure (meaning 6 autos total, and I'm pretty damn sure Zed will kill you too with that many autos during his ult)?
Edit: Talon always had a high winrate because he was played by people who knew what they were doing. Now that he's become popular, look at where his winrate is: fluctuacting between 48% and 65% in challenger because of sample size (solidly in the high 50s on average though), a bit over 55% in Diamond, then it's 53-54% in Plat/Gold and 51-52% in Silver/Bronze.
He was around 55% across all leagues before he became popular. He's at 53% now. It's not "all the rest has been nerfed", it's just him being played more and his winrate actually lowering because that includes people not knowing how to use him.
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Talon can definitely auto you more than twice during his all in.
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On September 17 2014 01:01 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2014 23:46 Alzadar wrote:
Wait are people going to start complaining about "power decline"? That's too ironic IMO. I mean. Talon was pretty much unchanged for like 2 seasons without much issues, and now they decide to nerf him because he's become too strong? That's a power decline.
You can just look at one season. Season 3 was literally called the assassin meta because it's practically all anyone played in mid lane and Talon was absent in every region. Over the course of one season he went from never played to semi-fotm with zero buffs. Power decline is happening in league but whether people mind or not is another question.
Alternatively Talon was good in Season 3 and just no one from any region realized it and played him competitively but that seems unlikely.
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There was no point to play Talon when there was Zed.
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Talon was actually spammed a fuckton at the start of season 3 when BC was bonkers because people believed his WR combo and its ability to apply all 4 stacks in AoE was super strong.
I mean, too bad they used 2 of his 3 abilities for that and dealt less damage than with a LW thrown in in the end. BC's passive, AD and ArPen were later nerfed anyway, and people are still too clueless to get the difference in usecase between BC and LW in general.
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On September 17 2014 01:21 Sufficiency wrote:
There was no point to play Talon when there was Zed.
Well you can play Talon against Zed. That's about it.
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On September 17 2014 01:21 Sufficiency wrote:
There was no point to play Talon when there was Zed.
No one played him when zed was banned though...
I just think the nerf is fucking stupid considering the ability is called cutthroat not anklebiter.
Should make it so his wave clear is shit when he rushes full arpen build without building hydra. Needs to be a meaningful tradeoff between building arpen vs ad early on.
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Meh, I think Talon is just one of those champions that doesn't work well in LoL (given Riot's design goals). I think everyone accepts that he needs to snowball in the midgame, but there are very few champions that can take active steps to prevent the snowball, but the ones that can really shut him down hard. This brings up counterpick issues (which can be really bad in LoL) and the current game just doesn't seem to be made to deal with Talon, Akali, Poppy, etc when they are strong + popular.
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I like how poppy is now a 'problem'. Been preaching this shit since end of s1. Probably the most balanced champion in the game, the only truly late game champion in LoL that got actively shat on in like almost every single matchup, with very little comeback mechanics since she couldn't safely farm otherwise. Talon and ahri are nowhere as balanced as poppy. They can always go back to afk farm mode, poppy does not have this luxury.
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Poppy has some problems though... near invincibility is an issue when it lasts 8 seconds, and her passive is way too deceptive.
No one cared about her because she was (or seemed to be) pretty weak.
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poppy has been played 1 game as a counter, maybe people can calm their tits.
In a relegation match in one of the worst regions.
Also, Azir is fun, i wonder if i can jungle him so that i can play him in all positions xD
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Poppy can ignore people, though, but slap a Lulu (even a support Lulu) alongside the equally farmed squishy that Talon wants to one-shot, and it won't matter if he can't 100-0 because he has no escapes, a long-ish cd on his gapcloser (which he also maxes last), and weak follow-up compared to to the likes of Zed, Rengar (less so now), Akali or Kha'Zix.
The issue with his kit is how binary it is. Then again you can't give him too much of other stuff or else he won't exactly be an assassin (see Zed and Kha'Zix able to poke and clear super fast while remaining safe).
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EPT
