EPT[Patch 4.15] Master Tier General Discussion - Page 61
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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MCMilo
United States365 Posts
Since winning against the higher tier teams are too hard, the middle tier teams then focus on not getting eliminated for the purpose of still getting paid and being ABLE to play. NA Challenger Series? Give me a break. What tournament organizers will assist Riot Games in promoting growth for the lower tier teams? Nobody that matters. All small tournaments that are focused on League of Legends are either 1) restricted to a certain group of players or 2) Prizes are sponsored items and Riot Points. No big TOs will even bother with League of Legends anymore because Riot Games strong-armed everyone back in 2012 who wanted their star players in NA LCS added with others NOT in LCS (this promotes more competition and growth!). For example, MLG tried League of Legends in 2011-2012 and made Pro Circuits to bring in international competition and more exposure to their game. After the end of 2012, MLG couldn't run League of Legends anymore due to Riot monopolizing their players and running a Pro Circuit without those recognizable names and brands are just not going to be profitable for MLG. Star Ladder, a well known TO in Russia, tried to bring in League of Legends to their tournaments in Spring 2014 (http://lol.gamepedia.com/SLTV_StarSeries/Season_IX) and looking at the Group stage, 3 of those teams didn't show up and NiP forfeited their spot because they were playing their Challenger Series to (SURPRISE) play in EU LCS, where they wanted a salary and good standing with Riot Games. And Star Ladder just couldn't bring in the bigger teams and players (who were playing in EU LCS obviously) because Riot Games refused to let their players play in that tournament. At this point, Riot is trying their best to make sure another LMQ doesn't happen again in any other region. Some no name tier 2 Chinese team moves to NA and not even a year later BAM, secures a fourth Chinese seed in the World Championship. That's not just saying that NA was bad to begin with, but Riot / Tencent are also absolutely terrible at managing their regions to even make this move from LMQ possible. As a result of LMQ's success, tons of amateur teams in Korea are trying to make their move to compete in NA and EU and Riot would be in shambles if these amateur teams also succeeded. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 07 2014 02:19 Slusher wrote: the system already in place for relegations makes this actually impossible, in fact it would take 2 full years to weed out every single LCS team, and I don't actually think korean B teams are good enough to do this anyway. They don't need to weed out every LCS team. They only need enough teams in LCS to take the top 3 spots and secure the Worlds seeds, which is less than the number of teams that can potentially advance from Challenger into LCS over 2 splits. On September 07 2014 02:21 wei2coolman wrote: That is insanely hyperbolic, you would need 9 korean teams outside of korea to get the NA/EU/CN spots, another 4 for SEA/wildcard. No way that's happening, especially considering the level of talent that has been shipped over so far, which have been ton of b-tier, c-tier, or washed up koreans. If, B-tier korean teams are taking NA/EU/CN spots, then, NA/EU/CN doesn't fucking deserve to have that spot. Taking ALL spots from a particular region would require a concerted effort from multiple Korean organizations, and that amount of concerted screwing-over of another scene wouldn't be worth their effort on an organizational level at that point. That said, I do think if Korean B-teams went to the other regions, they would very comfortably be able to be in competition for top 3 spots in any region. They wouldn't beat the best teams, but in CN/NA/EU/SEA the level of play is a lot more concentrated among the top few teams, and I think it'd be pretty easy for a Korean B-team to beat the 3rd-5th best teams in each region. Like, C9/TSM/Fnatic/EDG/OMG/etc. would keep their spots, but when we're talking teams like Curse, Alliance, Royal, IG, it's really not that outrageous to think that a Korean B-team would beat these teams. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On September 06 2014 13:04 cLutZ wrote: Yea...thats just false. NA has been doing fine internally because of the modern LCS, but it has been going backwards internationally...just like how tariffs just hurt your own people as a whole to benefit a small segment of the population. protectionism actually does work in some instances. Tariffs are not necessarily net negative Sufficiency, I just disagree entirely. The current protectionism is already hurting the NA scene, and more will just hurt it even more. This scheme just serves to give current NA pros stability, but does nothing to foster region wide competitiveness. This is exactly like protectionist tariffs which, for example, let US auto companies rake in huge profits while paying exorbinant salaries and benefits, only for those cars to be shit and totally exposed once Japanese and German manufacturers started competing on even footing. You're looking at the wrong time period for the creation of the American state. The protectionism he is talking about occurred in the 1800's, not the 1950's (by which time US policy had switched for the most part and the U.S. wanted to pressure other nations to reduce their tariffs and allow our goods in. E.G. GATT which we started in 1947). The nations that you claim "just totally beat us because of tariffs", like Japan* employed high tariffs in order to protect those industries until such a time as they could compete. US Auto companies were not successful because of tariffs they were successful because the rest of the world's production infrastructure was a bombed out heap after world war II and neither did they get lazy because of tariffs. If they failed because of tariffs it was German and Japanese tariffs which caused the failure. Indeed. In the 70's US auto companies lobbied the US government for tariffs. Which they did not get! (though Japan did voluntarily reduce imports) While the Development Economists are not unanimous on the subject of tariffs it is not nearly so clean cut as you suggest and there is robust evidence to suggest that tariffs are part of smart development strategy. *IIRC Japan still has effective tariffs on imports by requiring non-standard modifications to vehicles imported. This can add thousands of dollars of extra cost onto foreign vehicles which are not produced specifically for the relatively small Japanese market. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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ketchup
14521 Posts
On September 07 2014 03:37 TheYango wrote: That said, I do think if Korean B-teams went to the other regions, they would very comfortably be able to be in competition for top 3 spots in any region. They wouldn't beat the best teams, but in CN/NA/EU/SEA the level of play is a lot more concentrated among the top few teams, and I think it'd be pretty easy for a Korean B-team to beat the 3rd-5th best teams in each region. Like, C9/TSM/Fnatic/EDG/OMG/etc. would keep their spots, but when we're talking teams like Curse, Alliance, Royal, IG, it's really not that outrageous to think that a Korean B-team would beat these teams. Yango, you are behind in your LoL info. Alliance is comfortably the top of EU right now, and they are beating SK/Fnatic pretty easily. Other than that, the rest is fine. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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ketchup
14521 Posts
On September 07 2014 03:55 TheYango wrote: Welp, this is what happens when I pull an example from the region I don't watch, lol. Just edit it out and pretend it never happened! | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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ketchup
14521 Posts
On September 07 2014 03:57 TheYango wrote: You already quoted it! XD I can edit too! Of course I'd actually respond to the post, and ask if you think Starhorn Royal are really that far behind Korean top teams. Just to see what the response is. Insec got infected by the Chinese jungler curse though | ||
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
On September 07 2014 03:51 wei2coolman wrote: But Alliance is good... :O Good yes. Good enough to win worlds over Koreans? No. | ||
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zodde
Sweden1908 Posts
On September 07 2014 03:53 TheYango wrote: The more immediate question is are we gonna see an ESWC 2010 this year at Worlds. What's special about ESWC 2010? | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
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zodde
Sweden1908 Posts
On September 07 2014 04:06 Fusilero wrote: I think he means when ehome won the dota tournament without dropping a map? Oh, out of nowhere, or were they favourites? Is there any good article about it? (I know jack shit about dota history) | ||
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MCMilo
United States365 Posts
ESWC 2010 was a DotA 1 tournament in Europe where they invited EHOME (the strongest Chinese team at the time) to play. EHOME proceeded to completely stomp every single European team in 15 minute games by unconditionally winning all three lanes. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
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zodde
Sweden1908 Posts
On September 07 2014 04:11 Fusilero wrote: Ehome were the favourites but ehome's ESWC run was disgusting like not even close, I think EDG and alliance at the very least will put up a better fight against the samsungs Yeah I highly doubt that the koreans are going to stomp the whole tournament. They'll win, but some teams will atleast take games off them. Fnatic, c9, alliance and the chinese (maybe only EDG?) will have a decent chance i think. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On September 07 2014 04:02 Disengaged wrote: Good yes. Good enough to win worlds over Koreans? No. Good enough to finish ahead of the types of Korean teams we've seen sent over so far. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On September 07 2014 03:57 TheYango wrote: You already quoted it! XD Sshhh Just ban him, nuke his post, then make your edit. | ||
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