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On September 07 2014 01:07 Slusher wrote:
honestly I feel like this is a preventitive measure because of what people say about WCS, but to be honest I don't think people would hate on WCS so much if it was a LAN(from the first round), which LCS already is so they didn't need the rule but thats just my thoughts
Pretty much this. They have to live in the US to compete in lcs. Which good enough for me.
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Yeah I still don't quite understand why people are angry at this decision. It's the best decision Riot made on the competitive scene for two years.
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I'd really rather have the rumored Shy/Madlife team then whatever is going to take the two new spots now.
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Shy/Madlife can still come, they just can't bring an entirely Korean squad with them.
If I understand correctly, EG can bring in Shy/Madlife to replace Innox and Krepo, for example.
EDIT: actually, can anyone confirm my understanding of the new rule? Looks to me that Helios will be an exempt player, thus EG can bring in another two Korean players. EG will probably want to do that, because:
1. By removing Innox and Krepo it'll be an entirely Korean team and eliminates potential communication issues.
2. Helios, Madlife, and Shy used to be playing on the same team, and played for the same organization.
3. EG needs a better roaster, especially better top.
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Region lock would be interesting or cool if it meant we were going to see stuff like Chunkyfresh, Ninjaken, Azingy and KeithMcBreif in the LCS but in reality it just means more St.Vicious, Mashme and Rhux, in which case bring on the faceless Koreans!
@above, you are correct the rule does work that way, but that is a fictitious scenario, possible, but it's just made up. Shy and Madlife, reportedly had a 5 man team ready to go for the spring split, not just some made up wish.
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On September 07 2014 01:46 Slusher wrote:
Region lock would be interesting or cool if it meant we were going to see stuff like Chunkyfresh, Ninjaken, Azingy and KeithMcBreif in the LCS but in reality it just means more St.Vicious, Mashme and Rhux, in which case bring on the faceless Koreans!
I disagree. If you want top level competition you can just go watch OGN.
The reason why NA scene lacks behind is not really because players in NA are lazy, IMO. NA's lackluster performance is due to infrastructure and inexperience comparing to Korea/China's long-standing tradition and experience on e-sports. Simply importing players from Korea won't solve the infrastructure problem. To solve the infrastructure problem you need to enact protectionism policies for NA and allow NA to develop.
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On September 07 2014 01:07 Slusher wrote:
honestly I feel like this is a preventitive measure because of what people say about WCS, but to be honest I don't think people would hate on WCS so much if it was a LAN(from the first round), which LCS already is so they didn't need the rule but thats just my thoughts
It's basically about protecting the identity of NA/EU LCS for Riot. The identity is lost if people just import whoever they want into their teams. I don't agree with this viewpoint, but Riot/Blizzard seem to think so. It also attempts to protect the players in the region a bit, but I don't think it helps the region in the long run. Importing talent usually increases the region's overall skill level. The increase in skill may happen eventually by itself, but there will always be a certain plateau for each region. These newer players introduce different styles/information/ work ethic/etc into the scene which isn't really harmful. This is especially the case when you consider that the players are actually staying in NA/EU for extended periods of time.
http://www.dailydot.com/esports/madlife-shy-ryu-league-of-legends/
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I dunno why you quote me to give me the riot speak which I had already decoded with my post.
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On September 07 2014 01:57 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 01:07 Slusher wrote:
honestly I feel like this is a preventitive measure because of what people say about WCS, but to be honest I don't think people would hate on WCS so much if it was a LAN(from the first round), which LCS already is so they didn't need the rule but thats just my thoughts It's basically about protecting the identity of NA/EU LCS for Riot. The identity is lost if people just import whoever they want into their teams. I don't agree with this viewpoint, but Riot/Blizzard seem to think so. It also attempts to protect the players in the region a bit, but I don't think it helps the region in the long run. Importing talent usually increases the region's overall skill level. The increase in skill may happen eventually by itself, but there will always be a certain plateau for each region. These newer players introduce different styles/information/ work ethic/etc into the scene which isn't really harmful. This is especially the case when you consider that the players are actually staying in NA/EU for extended periods of time. http://www.dailydot.com/esports/madlife-shy-ryu-league-of-legends/
You can still import players, by the way. You can't just import an entire LMQ.
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well honestly we don't know that much, because the definition of residency requirement (or whatever term was used) was given a TBA for what it actually meant in the Original post, to my knowledge it has not been clarified yet.
but it seems safe to assume that the only thing this would have prevented historically in the NA LCS is LMQ, however even that is questionable because they moved here a split ahead of time, that may meet the requirement we do not know. but even if it did at this point with the league going to points it will be very unlikely to qualify by only playing in the summer split, so you will proably have to throw away an entire year to meet the requirement.
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On September 07 2014 01:52 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 01:46 Slusher wrote:
Region lock would be interesting or cool if it meant we were going to see stuff like Chunkyfresh, Ninjaken, Azingy and KeithMcBreif in the LCS but in reality it just means more St.Vicious, Mashme and Rhux, in which case bring on the faceless Koreans! I disagree. If you want top level competition you can just go watch OGN. The reason why NA scene lacks behind is not really because players in NA are lazy, IMO. NA's lackluster performance is due to infrastructure and inexperience comparing to Korea/China's long-standing tradition and experience on e-sports. Simply importing players from Korea won't solve the infrastructure problem. To solve the infrastructure problem you need to enact protectionism policies for NA and allow NA to develop.
Or, you throw them into the deep end, and force them to create infrastructure or sink.
The lack of calitrolz has already made me lose faith in NA LCS.
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On September 07 2014 02:05 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 01:52 Sufficiency wrote:On September 07 2014 01:46 Slusher wrote:
Region lock would be interesting or cool if it meant we were going to see stuff like Chunkyfresh, Ninjaken, Azingy and KeithMcBreif in the LCS but in reality it just means more St.Vicious, Mashme and Rhux, in which case bring on the faceless Koreans! I disagree. If you want top level competition you can just go watch OGN. The reason why NA scene lacks behind is not really because players in NA are lazy, IMO. NA's lackluster performance is due to infrastructure and inexperience comparing to Korea/China's long-standing tradition and experience on e-sports. Simply importing players from Korea won't solve the infrastructure problem. To solve the infrastructure problem you need to enact protectionism policies for NA and allow NA to develop. Or, you throw them into the deep end, and force them to create infrastructure or sink. The lack of calitrolz has already made me lose faith in NA LCS.
There will be no calitroll if you go for a sink-or-swim strategy. Things don't happen overnight and you can't expect NA challenger teams to compete against a second-tier Korean team. We have already seen how LMQ basically murdered the NA Challenger scene.
The NA Challenger scene is already on life-support prior to this decision. All NA teams were importing players from other regions, leaving little opportunities for NA players to join the LCS. Out of all the acquisitions this year, IIRC only Gleeb came from NA. This is how hopeless the NA Challenger scene is right now. Do you honestly think by opening arms to more foreign players will bring forth more calitroll?
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it's what they want to do and that is cool I'm not "cancelling my pre-order" or that bullshit, but personally I'd rather see Shy/Madlife team than Curse academy. The reality is that the 9th and 10th slot teams in the NA LCS, after this rule, are going to be uninteresting recycled NA player teams and I'm just not that interested in seeing them play. Now you are welcome to make your argument that in the long run it will improve the league, but I really just don't see that being the case over playing against a higher skilled team.
I know the argument is that it makes it easier to secure endorsements and to have players commit to full time schedules, or to have teams commit to full time coaches etc. but TSMs branding has withstood almost a complete conversion from not just NA players but from the players that made the brand popular in the first place, I just don't think it's a reality that nationality kills interest.
to be clear I will watch the LCS NA next year irreguardless of what the final rule looks like, it's not RUINING it for me. It's just my opinion that the rule makes the league less interesting, even if just from a 9.5 to a 9
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On September 07 2014 02:09 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 02:05 wei2coolman wrote:On September 07 2014 01:52 Sufficiency wrote:On September 07 2014 01:46 Slusher wrote:
Region lock would be interesting or cool if it meant we were going to see stuff like Chunkyfresh, Ninjaken, Azingy and KeithMcBreif in the LCS but in reality it just means more St.Vicious, Mashme and Rhux, in which case bring on the faceless Koreans! I disagree. If you want top level competition you can just go watch OGN. The reason why NA scene lacks behind is not really because players in NA are lazy, IMO. NA's lackluster performance is due to infrastructure and inexperience comparing to Korea/China's long-standing tradition and experience on e-sports. Simply importing players from Korea won't solve the infrastructure problem. To solve the infrastructure problem you need to enact protectionism policies for NA and allow NA to develop. Or, you throw them into the deep end, and force them to create infrastructure or sink. The lack of calitrolz has already made me lose faith in NA LCS. There will be no calitroll if you go for a sink-or-swim strategy. Things don't happen overnight and you can't expect NA challenger teams to compete against a second-tier Korean team. We have already seen how LMQ basically murdered the NA Challenger scene. The NA Challenger scene is already on life-support prior to this decision. All NA teams were importing players from other regions, leaving little opportunities for NA players to join the LCS. Out of all the acquisitions this year, IIRC only Gleeb came from NA. This is how hopeless the NA Challenger scene is right now. Do you honestly think by opening arms to more foreign players will bring forth more calitroll?
I don't think closing them will either, Old guard players have the owners so thuroughly brainwashed that breaking a solo q player into the 5 man pro style isn't worth the time that you will just see more 'retired' na players (the real challenger scene killer)
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I'm of the opinion that if they had not implemented this rule, then S5 Worlds would have been 16 KR teams. And while to many on TL that's a good thing, it would have driven the average LoL fan away and led to LoL being the next "dead gaem".
That's just me, however.
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Sufficiency, I just disagree entirely. The current protectionism is already hurting the NA scene, and more will just hurt it even more. This scheme just serves to give current NA pros stability, but does nothing to foster region wide competitiveness.
This is exactly like protectionist tariffs which, for example, let US auto companies rake in huge profits while paying exorbinant salaries and benefits, only for those cars to be shit and totally exposed once Japanese and German manufacturers started competing on even footing.
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People keep talking about this lack of "infrastructure" all the time. Then I hear about how scrimming NA/EU teams is such a mission as they aren't on time, leave after 10 minutes if it goes back, take forever between games etc. NA sucks not because of infrastructure, it's because they players are kids who treat their job poorly.
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On September 07 2014 02:16 BrownBear wrote:
I'm of the opinion that if they had not implemented this rule, then S5 Worlds would have been 16 KR teams. And while to many on TL that's a good thing, it would have driven the average LoL fan away and led to LoL being the next "dead gaem".
That's just me, however.
the system already in place for relegations makes this actually impossible, in fact it would take 2 full years to weed out every single LCS team, and I don't actually think korean B teams are good enough to do this anyway.
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Problem with having a 10 man league with no foreign team is the lack of big organizations (that can afford infrastructure), for all the teams. This could be solved if sister teams were allowed in the LCS.
On September 07 2014 02:16 BrownBear wrote:
I'm of the opinion that if they had not implemented this rule, then S5 Worlds would have been 16 KR teams. And while to many on TL that's a good thing, it would have driven the average LoL fan away and led to LoL being the next "dead gaem".
That's just me, however.
That is insanely hyperbolic, you would need 9 korean teams outside of korea to get the NA/EU/CN spots, another 4 for SEA/wildcard. No way that's happening, especially considering the level of talent that has been shipped over so far, which have been ton of b-tier, c-tier, or washed up koreans. If, B-tier korean teams are taking NA/EU/CN spots, then, NA/EU/CN doesn't fucking deserve to have that spot.
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As if other teams that aren't Korean deserve a spot either.
I just see Worlds as the other regions coming together to be like "Hey, Korea! Kick my ass next! Bet you can't do it as hard as the last team!"
Coming from SC, Koreans aren't going to lose Worlds anytime soon now that they've had pleeeeeeeeeeenty of time to get their foot into the door which didn't take long at all.
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EPT
