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On August 24 2014 09:03 obesechicken13 wrote:
A bit late: On Alistar, I always felt like Ali sucked in top lane after watching Dyrus troll with him against a Jax. You need to outplay to trade. I thought it was just the natural evolution of toplaners in high level play becoming passive farming ccbot tanks that led to Ali begin picked at all.
all you need to do in order to trade as Ali is know how to W+auto. Against melees anyways. Ali sucks in lane against most ranged champs.
The other thing about Alistar is that even though he doesn't carry all that hard in the traditional sense, he is insanely powerful with nothing but a Triforce. For pros, this means that they can essentially sacrifice their top lane and still have a very useful champion in that role. Then if he gets farm, all the better. Triforce+Ghostblade cow hits like a fucking truck.
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holy shit am I glad I got around to reading that gold/plat thread before it got closed, solid gold comedy thread thanks to sufficency
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Lol these lizard squad guys are funny. they arent very good at ddosing.
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So how would you guys go about handling someone who has played League on and off since 2009, but can't play a moba to save his life?
I've got an acquaintance who's picking it up again to play with friends, and they've all tried to teach him before how to play (moving around, runes/masteries, summoner spells to use, item build paths, etc.) and no matter what they do, he is dead set in his ways (not moving, wrong runes/masteries, poor/bad summoner spells, bad item choices, etc.).
Right now I'm just focusing on having him move around a lot and learning to use Flash defensively only (he can use whichever 2nd summoner he wants), but until the friends play with him in lane (he is either ADC or support) I won't know if anything I say sticks. They've all tried to teach him these things as well, but I don't know what they've done/said to him to make him think that these things don't work with him.
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On August 24 2014 13:19 Kinie wrote:
So how would you guys go about handling someone who has played League on and off since 2009, but can't play a moba to save his life?
I've got an acquaintance who's picking it up again to play with friends, and they've all tried to teach him before how to play (moving around, runes/masteries, summoner spells to use, item build paths, etc.) and no matter what they do, he is dead set in his ways (not moving, wrong runes/masteries, poor/bad summoner spells, bad item choices, etc.).
Right now I'm just focusing on having him move around a lot and learning to use Flash defensively only (he can use whichever 2nd summoner he wants), but until the friends play with him in lane (he is either ADC or support) I won't know if anything I say sticks. They've all tried to teach him these things as well, but I don't know what they've done/said to him to make him think that these things don't work with him.
If people refuse to listen, I refuse to advise.
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On August 24 2014 13:19 Kinie wrote:
So how would you guys go about handling someone who has played League on and off since 2009, but can't play a moba to save his life?
I've got an acquaintance who's picking it up again to play with friends, and they've all tried to teach him before how to play (moving around, runes/masteries, summoner spells to use, item build paths, etc.) and no matter what they do, he is dead set in his ways (not moving, wrong runes/masteries, poor/bad summoner spells, bad item choices, etc.).
Right now I'm just focusing on having him move around a lot and learning to use Flash defensively only (he can use whichever 2nd summoner he wants), but until the friends play with him in lane (he is either ADC or support) I won't know if anything I say sticks. They've all tried to teach him these things as well, but I don't know what they've done/said to him to make him think that these things don't work with him.
Not much you can do if he's unwilling to listen to criticism.
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Back when small camps spawned at 1:40, someone argued with me that it's better to not do a small camp first and just wait 15 seconds to start at a buff instead. Spent like 5 minutes arguing about it. I pretty much gave up on trying to help him after that.
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My cousin doesn't understand exp sharing, so you can't let him leash jungle camps for you, or you won't get lvl 2.
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On August 24 2014 13:36 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 13:19 Kinie wrote:
So how would you guys go about handling someone who has played League on and off since 2009, but can't play a moba to save his life?
I've got an acquaintance who's picking it up again to play with friends, and they've all tried to teach him before how to play (moving around, runes/masteries, summoner spells to use, item build paths, etc.) and no matter what they do, he is dead set in his ways (not moving, wrong runes/masteries, poor/bad summoner spells, bad item choices, etc.).
Right now I'm just focusing on having him move around a lot and learning to use Flash defensively only (he can use whichever 2nd summoner he wants), but until the friends play with him in lane (he is either ADC or support) I won't know if anything I say sticks. They've all tried to teach him these things as well, but I don't know what they've done/said to him to make him think that these things don't work with him. Not much you can do if he's unwilling to listen to criticism.
See, that's the thing. His friends (and mine now I guess) can be pretty negative when it comes to competitive games in general. And after almost 5 years of on-again, off-again playing League with these same people, who tell him he's playing bad in a very angry/disappointed voice, is very negative/down on himself, who feels that no matter what he does or who he lanes against, he feels outmatched/overwhelmed and makes all these mistakes.
I think the next time we play I want him to play a different role/lane, see if being out of bot lane helps his mentality at all. I just don't know what lane/role to put him in.
And I'm not ignoring you Gahlo, I just don't want to double-quote when my reply sorta is to both you and Amui.
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On August 24 2014 14:44 Kinie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 13:36 Amui wrote:On August 24 2014 13:19 Kinie wrote:
So how would you guys go about handling someone who has played League on and off since 2009, but can't play a moba to save his life?
I've got an acquaintance who's picking it up again to play with friends, and they've all tried to teach him before how to play (moving around, runes/masteries, summoner spells to use, item build paths, etc.) and no matter what they do, he is dead set in his ways (not moving, wrong runes/masteries, poor/bad summoner spells, bad item choices, etc.).
Right now I'm just focusing on having him move around a lot and learning to use Flash defensively only (he can use whichever 2nd summoner he wants), but until the friends play with him in lane (he is either ADC or support) I won't know if anything I say sticks. They've all tried to teach him these things as well, but I don't know what they've done/said to him to make him think that these things don't work with him. Not much you can do if he's unwilling to listen to criticism. See, that's the thing. His friends (and mine now I guess) can be pretty negative when it comes to competitive games in general. And after almost 5 years of on-again, off-again playing League with these same people, who tell him he's playing bad in a very angry/disappointed voice, is very negative/down on himself, who feels that no matter what he does or who he lanes against, he feels outmatched/overwhelmed and makes all these mistakes. I think the next time we play I want him to play a different role/lane, see if being out of bot lane helps his mentality at all. I just don't know what lane/role to put him in. And I'm not ignoring you Gahlo, I just don't want to double-quote when my reply sorta is to both you and Amui.
I think he needs an outside opinion tbh. He seems somewhat jaded and he doesn't really care any more because he hears that from all his friends. Needs an opinion from somebody without any regard for his feelings and shit.
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Sounds like your friends are dicks and he should grow a pair.
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And NA in loss prevented....again.
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On August 24 2014 15:50 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 14:44 Kinie wrote:On August 24 2014 13:36 Amui wrote:On August 24 2014 13:19 Kinie wrote:
So how would you guys go about handling someone who has played League on and off since 2009, but can't play a moba to save his life?
I've got an acquaintance who's picking it up again to play with friends, and they've all tried to teach him before how to play (moving around, runes/masteries, summoner spells to use, item build paths, etc.) and no matter what they do, he is dead set in his ways (not moving, wrong runes/masteries, poor/bad summoner spells, bad item choices, etc.).
Right now I'm just focusing on having him move around a lot and learning to use Flash defensively only (he can use whichever 2nd summoner he wants), but until the friends play with him in lane (he is either ADC or support) I won't know if anything I say sticks. They've all tried to teach him these things as well, but I don't know what they've done/said to him to make him think that these things don't work with him. Not much you can do if he's unwilling to listen to criticism. See, that's the thing. His friends (and mine now I guess) can be pretty negative when it comes to competitive games in general. And after almost 5 years of on-again, off-again playing League with these same people, who tell him he's playing bad in a very angry/disappointed voice, is very negative/down on himself, who feels that no matter what he does or who he lanes against, he feels outmatched/overwhelmed and makes all these mistakes. I think the next time we play I want him to play a different role/lane, see if being out of bot lane helps his mentality at all. I just don't know what lane/role to put him in. And I'm not ignoring you Gahlo, I just don't want to double-quote when my reply sorta is to both you and Amui. I think he needs an outside opinion tbh. He seems somewhat jaded and he doesn't really care any more because he hears that from all his friends. Needs an opinion from somebody without any regard for his feelings and shit.
I've played the majority of my games with people that are significantly worse than me. Some of them are still locked in bronze after at least a year of semi-regular gaming. Some people just don't have the chops to improve themselves, no matter how patient or insightful you are.
But at the end of the day, I'd still rather game with my friends and have lopsided games with weird win conditions than solo queue. For the most part, we all enjoy ourselves and aren't dicks to one another, although there is certainly some frustration when the low level guys make the same bone-headed plays ten games in a row. If anyone is not enjoying this kind of arrangement, it will probably dissolve. YMMV.
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On August 24 2014 17:07 OhTwoMise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 15:50 Amui wrote:On August 24 2014 14:44 Kinie wrote:On August 24 2014 13:36 Amui wrote:On August 24 2014 13:19 Kinie wrote:
So how would you guys go about handling someone who has played League on and off since 2009, but can't play a moba to save his life?
I've got an acquaintance who's picking it up again to play with friends, and they've all tried to teach him before how to play (moving around, runes/masteries, summoner spells to use, item build paths, etc.) and no matter what they do, he is dead set in his ways (not moving, wrong runes/masteries, poor/bad summoner spells, bad item choices, etc.).
Right now I'm just focusing on having him move around a lot and learning to use Flash defensively only (he can use whichever 2nd summoner he wants), but until the friends play with him in lane (he is either ADC or support) I won't know if anything I say sticks. They've all tried to teach him these things as well, but I don't know what they've done/said to him to make him think that these things don't work with him. Not much you can do if he's unwilling to listen to criticism. See, that's the thing. His friends (and mine now I guess) can be pretty negative when it comes to competitive games in general. And after almost 5 years of on-again, off-again playing League with these same people, who tell him he's playing bad in a very angry/disappointed voice, is very negative/down on himself, who feels that no matter what he does or who he lanes against, he feels outmatched/overwhelmed and makes all these mistakes. I think the next time we play I want him to play a different role/lane, see if being out of bot lane helps his mentality at all. I just don't know what lane/role to put him in. And I'm not ignoring you Gahlo, I just don't want to double-quote when my reply sorta is to both you and Amui. I think he needs an outside opinion tbh. He seems somewhat jaded and he doesn't really care any more because he hears that from all his friends. Needs an opinion from somebody without any regard for his feelings and shit. I've played the majority of my games with people that are significantly worse than me. Some of them are still locked in bronze after at least a year of semi-regular gaming. Some people just don't have the chops to improve themselves, no matter how patient or insightful you are. But at the end of the day, I'd still rather game with my friends and have lopsided games with weird win conditions than solo queue. For the most part, we all enjoy ourselves and aren't dicks to one another, although there is certainly some frustration when the low level guys make the same bone-headed plays ten games in a row. If anyone is not enjoying this kind of arrangement, it will probably dissolve. YMMV.
Amen to this. I play with a group of friends that spans from d1 (me) to bronze 3 or so. I usually have to go on a smurf account just so we dont end up with ridiculous matchups but then we can do awesome comps (shield/speedups, hooks, birds, get-big, lasers, etc.) and just have fun trying to win with those types of things. Everyone gets to feel useful and it keeps us from raging when someone does something retarded because we just have to look at our champs to remember it's just a game for fun.
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I also use smurfs to play with friends, and I feel it's an excellent time to try new things.
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On August 24 2014 14:44 Kinie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 13:36 Amui wrote:On August 24 2014 13:19 Kinie wrote:
So how would you guys go about handling someone who has played League on and off since 2009, but can't play a moba to save his life?
I've got an acquaintance who's picking it up again to play with friends, and they've all tried to teach him before how to play (moving around, runes/masteries, summoner spells to use, item build paths, etc.) and no matter what they do, he is dead set in his ways (not moving, wrong runes/masteries, poor/bad summoner spells, bad item choices, etc.).
Right now I'm just focusing on having him move around a lot and learning to use Flash defensively only (he can use whichever 2nd summoner he wants), but until the friends play with him in lane (he is either ADC or support) I won't know if anything I say sticks. They've all tried to teach him these things as well, but I don't know what they've done/said to him to make him think that these things don't work with him. Not much you can do if he's unwilling to listen to criticism. See, that's the thing. His friends (and mine now I guess) can be pretty negative when it comes to competitive games in general. And after almost 5 years of on-again, off-again playing League with these same people, who tell him he's playing bad in a very angry/disappointed voice, is very negative/down on himself, who feels that no matter what he does or who he lanes against, he feels outmatched/overwhelmed and makes all these mistakes. I think the next time we play I want him to play a different role/lane, see if being out of bot lane helps his mentality at all. I just don't know what lane/role to put him in. And I'm not ignoring you Gahlo, I just don't want to double-quote when my reply sorta is to both you and Amui.
First thing to do would help him set up good runes and mastery pages. You can do that out of game, without the stress of a competetive situation, instead of shouting at him ingame when he can't really change it anymore. Same with items, let him make a plan of what he wants to buy before the game, instead of shouting at him after he bought the wrong items.
If you can do those two things, you can start on working on stuff during the game. If he does not listen, there is not a lot you can do in my opinion, but you should know your friends better than i do. If you want to improve his mentality, don't let him jungle with those friends you talked about. As a jungler, you will always get shouted at, even if you do the absolutely correct thing.
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At one point a few months after I started playing, we had a group regularly getting on, of various levels (didn't have a smurf yet but I was the only level 30 and still s2 silver level so... ).
I ended up leaving it, despite being people I was generally on friendly terms with outside of game, because despite doing my best to accomodate people (jungled since noone else did it nor wanted to, never got to play Morgana ever despite being my fav champion at the time because one of us literally only played her, tried answering questions and giving advice when they were lost or encountered a new champ), the Morgana player was bad, even for my badness badder than now at the time, but he got angry because he failed and lashed out at me whenever I offered to help (I remember being cursed at when he died to pre-6 Kass, complained he couldn't cast or Flash and I said Black Shield would prevent the silence).
Could have dealt with it but the rest of the group stood behind him because he was new and I, as the oldest, had to be patient and accepting and not lecture him. When I was only offering, not criticising. And getting insulted in return. :|
Most of them either didn't improve or stopped playing (the so friendly guy is Silver V playing mainly support now it appears), and those who kept playing (more than on-and-off coops and ARAMs I mean) are still really negative in game and close to criticism so... not dipping into that again.
If the guy is defensive because of how his friends are with him I guess before even talking about his play, you'd have to talk with him about how he feels about the game and the situation. If it's not fun for him to get yelled at like that, what does he enjoy in the game/why does he keep playing it? Also why does he keep playing bot (I assume it's to not be alone in lane if his goal is to play with friends, since low level people don't roam much they can feel isolated "guys it's like I'm having a skype chat with you while playing single-player"), is it related to which champs he likes, what kind of stuff he likes to do (Vayne not exactly like Ryze, etc.)?
Maybe there's a champ more intuitively suited to him.
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If you bitch at your friends when playing with them they'll stop playing with you. I've seen it happen a lot. I used to random champs when I played with my friends and most of them had smurfs.
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On August 24 2014 11:43 Slusher wrote:
holy shit am I glad I got around to reading that gold/plat thread before it got closed, solid gold comedy thread thanks to sufficency
I actually reported that thread. He was obviously taking advantage of our resources. It's not like he actually bothered to read any of the suggestions we wrote.
If he wanted to advertise his stream, he can make another thread for it.
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EPT
