On July 24 2014 15:08 VayneAuthority wrote: its because ad ratios were never meant to be a thing, this game is modeled after classic mobas afterall. thats why all the old champs have random AP ratios. Then they started adding in AD ratios later
No, they still add random ass AP ratios to modern champions who will never build AP.
Yasuo E Quinn Q lol Vi E Jayce hammer W
Khazix is the weirdest 50%AP ratio on his passive, 50% AP ratio on his E heal.
every skill would be like that if they kept it standard, but they decided to add ad ratios to the game
On July 24 2014 15:08 VayneAuthority wrote: its because ad ratios were never meant to be a thing, this game is modeled after classic mobas afterall. thats why all the old champs have random AP ratios. Then they started adding in AD ratios later
No, they still add random ass AP ratios to modern champions who will never build AP.
Yasuo E Quinn Q lol Vi E Jayce hammer W
Khazix is the weirdest 50%AP ratio on his passive, 50% AP ratio on his E heal.
Yeah those are fairly random and I think many are just to justify triforce like he said but I've never heard an official reason. Maybe they want every skill to have a ratio as well.
On July 24 2014 15:20 GolemMadness wrote: I think every heal has an AP ratio, and every shield except for Riven's does as well. Then you get weird stuff like AP Tryndamere and they actually have to nerf it.
mostly
Aatrox heal (AD ratio) Mundo ult (percent HP) Gragas passive (percent HP) Fiora passive (level scaling) Maokai passive (percent HP) Rengar W (level scaling plus percent HP missing) Zac passive blob pickup (percent HP)
for Shields with no AP ratio
Blitz Passive (mana scaling) Evelynn R (enemy hit scaling) Jarvan W (enemy hit scaling) Malphite passive (%HP scaling) Naut W (%HP scaling) Riven (AD) Vi passive (%HP) Yasuo Passive (level scaling)
The way I see it, Riot wants basically (almost) every skill to have a ratio, but some skills would be too OP if they had an AD ratio, so they give it an AP one instead.
Back in DotA, spells scaled only with spell level (which was itself an artifact of the RTS engine the game was built on), which caused mages to typically fall off lategame, or at least devolve into a mainly supportive role. One of Riot's differentiating principles when they created LoL is that they wanted abilities to scale (which is why AP is a stat in the first place. It doesn't exist in DotA). Thus abilities have AP ratios. It's why so many older champs have had viable AP offbuilds - e.g. Kayle, Ezreal, Kogma, Poppy, Nasus, Alistar, Tryndamere, Yi, Tristana, Sion, Gragas (hell, Sion and Gragas were originally meant to be tanks).
As champion design patterns have evolved, we've seen the rise of AD scaling, as well the occasional HP or AR ratio (and Galio's getting MR ratios when he's reworked). However, it's still Riot policy that most abilities, and almost all damaging or healing/shielding abilities, should scale in some way or another. If none of the alternatives work for what they're trying to do with the champ, they'll tack on an AP ratio. Usually it's too low to be meaningful, but sometimes it still leads to hilariously abusive stuff like AP Rengar.
On July 24 2014 15:48 Ryuu314 wrote: The way I see it, Riot wants basically (almost) every skill to have a ratio, but some skills would be too OP if they had an AD ratio, so they give it an AP one instead.
Even AP Aatrox was tried out a bit when he came out. There's a video somewhere of an AP Aatrox getting a multi-man knock-up with Q then pressing RE and melting 3 of them.
I don't see much Gragas (God bless) but I'm perplexed by his W. When I played against it I'd walk out of range during his channel then he'd play his auto animation in the air and I'd take damage (which suggests I wasn't out of range since Naut shows very well how the auto just cancels then, but there's no mention of his range being extended like Vi's or Wukong's auto modifiers). When I played it whenever I used W when right next to a minion and right-clicking it during the channel it'd take the damage as soon as the channel was completed, without any animation from my model. How does that skill work, I don't understand? @_@
I do kind of wonder what League would have been like if there weren't AD ratios. Always made me wonder why since judging by the name AP ratios were/should have been the only ratios. AD casters always either too strong or too weak it feels because of the nature of attack damage. Maybe when we get a sandbox mode someone can try only have AP ratios lol
There is NO way teemo should ever be able to freeze a lane against nasus. You shouldn't use E ever probably because if you push the lane then he can freeze. Most of the lane phase will be you farming melee creeps under tower, maybe you can snipe a few ranged ones.
To be honest most melees who can't all in teemo do worse because they have less sustain and don't support ganks half as well so it's not a terrible lane but you can just play malphite or something and throw rocks at him. i don't think there is a single lane where E max chalice builds make any sense the real problem is that Q Cd gets reduced a lot with levels so it rekts you more than losing 20 or more cs. with shrooms and poison teemo is decent at holding back waves anyway
i guess if you go AP nasus and your E can clear the whole wave wtih a single cast it might be viable. You'd get drings though probably.
On July 24 2014 19:42 Slayer91 wrote: There is NO way teemo should ever be able to freeze a lane against nasus. You shouldn't use E ever probably because if you push the lane then he can freeze. Most of the lane phase will be you farming melee creeps under tower, maybe you can snipe a few ranged ones.
To be honest most melees who can't all in teemo do worse because they have less sustain and don't support ganks half as well so it's not a terrible lane but you can just play malphite or something and throw rocks at him. i don't think there is a single lane where E max chalice builds make any sense the real problem is that Q Cd gets reduced a lot with levels so it rekts you more than losing 20 or more cs. with shrooms and poison teemo is decent at holding back waves anyway
i guess if you go AP nasus and your E can clear the whole wave wtih a single cast it might be viable. You'd get drings though probably.
On July 24 2014 19:42 Numy wrote: I do kind of wonder what League would have been like if there weren't AD ratios. Always made me wonder why since judging by the name AP ratios were/should have been the only ratios. AD casters always either too strong or too weak it feels because of the nature of attack damage. Maybe when we get a sandbox mode someone can try only have AP ratios lol
On July 24 2014 19:42 Slayer91 wrote: There is NO way teemo should ever be able to freeze a lane against nasus. You shouldn't use E ever probably because if you push the lane then he can freeze. Most of the lane phase will be you farming melee creeps under tower, maybe you can snipe a few ranged ones.
To be honest most melees who can't all in teemo do worse because they have less sustain and don't support ganks half as well so it's not a terrible lane but you can just play malphite or something and throw rocks at him. i don't think there is a single lane where E max chalice builds make any sense the real problem is that Q Cd gets reduced a lot with levels so it rekts you more than losing 20 or more cs. with shrooms and poison teemo is decent at holding back waves anyway
i guess if you go AP nasus and your E can clear the whole wave wtih a single cast it might be viable. You'd get drings though probably.
If you want to play passive, never harass with E and be content with falling behind a ton, then go for it. If you want to win lane and be relevant in the mid game while keeping Teemo down, then max E first.
On July 24 2014 20:35 Fusilero wrote: http://www.twitch.tv/garenaesports Meanwhile in SEA logitech fighter picks fiora vs ryze against neolution full louis
On July 24 2014 19:42 Numy wrote: I do kind of wonder what League would have been like if there weren't AD ratios. Always made me wonder why since judging by the name AP ratios were/should have been the only ratios. AD casters always either too strong or too weak it feels because of the nature of attack damage. Maybe when we get a sandbox mode someone can try only have AP ratios lol
No blade would make me a very sad zed
Well the thing is you would then have items that give AD and AP or AP and Arpen etc. Think the game would maybe be easier to balance if they did this. Ability Power increases abilities and Attack damage increases attack. Wonder what made them also include AD ratios.
Basically "Imagine doing more damage when you shove your sword in someone's body because you have this fancy mage hat in your inventory", flavour and all that. Not sure which red said that though, maybe Zileas. DFG Pantheon or Talon definitely doesn't have the same flavour as DFG Akali.
On July 24 2014 21:57 Alaric wrote: Basically "Imagine doing more damage when you shove your sword in someone's body because you have this fancy mage hat in your inventory", flavour and all that. Not sure which red said that though, maybe Zileas. DFG Pantheon or Talon definitely doesn't have the same flavour as DFG Akali.
DFG pantheon if it all scaled with AP would be something else, you could probably literally goombastomp squishies by the end.
On topic though, Whenever i see nasus my first pick isn't generally teemo but rather quinn. Blind slightly worse but the harrassment is ridiculous on nasus.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/ap5c4/107a8b6427.jpg)
