• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:32
CEST 05:32
KST 12:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off0[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event18
Community News
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris28Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6
StarCraft 2
General
What mix of new and old maps do you want in the next 1v1 ladder pool? (SC2) : 2v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Monday Nights Weeklies Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below
Brood War
General
No Rain in ASL20? BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off Flash On His 2010 "God" Form, Mind Games, vs JD BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro24 Group D [ASL20] Ro24 Group B [ASL20] Ro24 Group C BWCL Season 63 Announcement
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The year 2050 European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment"
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Breaking the Meta: Non-Stand…
TrAiDoS
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3906 users

[Patch 4.11] Maokai Rework General Discussion - Page 55

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 53 54 55 56 57 72 Next
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
July 10 2014 22:53 GMT
#1081
I just don't even understand how they could say that one of Xerath's main issues was unsatisfying skills and then release the marble plinker ult. I even seem to remember it being on PBE and they emphasized it was a WIP graphic...Then I think all they added was a little blue puff on impact and shipped it.

Like, it almost seems like a joke...
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
July 10 2014 23:27 GMT
#1082
On July 11 2014 04:04 kongoline wrote:
lol just realized all the meaningless vlad changes riot did recently is because of the new skin, i always thought they are greedy but deep inside hoped maybe im wrong, sad


Yeah, like when they did all those changes to Viktor, Quinn and Lissandra when their new skins came out. IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
lilwisper
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2515 Posts
July 10 2014 23:53 GMT
#1083
On July 11 2014 07:39 JazzVortical wrote:
Literally the only thing they had to do was adjust his old E and his passive. That was it.


Yeah, just make his E in siege mode the same length as Q in siege mode and old Xerath would have been fine.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
July 11 2014 00:01 GMT
#1084
implying that he was not good even if they did nothing? because he was.
Carrilord has arrived.
AetherZucchini
Profile Joined July 2014
Switzerland24 Posts
July 11 2014 00:11 GMT
#1085
On July 11 2014 04:57 arb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2014 04:51 Numy wrote:
Funny thing is Xerath wasn't even about him not being viable or being too good. It seemed like a rioter basically decided he didn't like Xerath so he went and reworked him. The most bizarre design decision I've seen in a game in awhile.

they reworked him because he was boring an unable to play tbh.
if they changed his current ult to what it was before i.e not raindrops he'd be pretty sweet imo.


I can't let you say that about my beloved (departed) Xerath !

He was a really fun and unique champion, with various possibilities of itemization and fascinating playstyle at any point in the game. Laning was all about snap Q's and reaching 6 with enough mana/opponent low enough to try to get a kill or pushing him out of lane, and then being free to roam and use creative positioning to make plays. He was a beast when it came to objective control, encouraged warding and organised play, and exploited the terrain with its range in locus mode like no other champ did/does. There was this great thing where you could hit and run by going W-Q-W run W-Q-W, coupled with rylai for extra funsies. More than anything else, ms boost removal is what killed Xerath.

(Some comments about the rework process in the spoiler)
+ Show Spoiler +

I actually followed the (really open) discussions about his rework, mostly led by Xelnath. He started the whole thing with a long post composed half of an in-depth analysis based on a survey given to some high-level Xerath NA players, and half of a summary of the general public opinions about the champion.

The general public had three criticisms about old Xerath : few lane interaction, inability to do much in terms of fighting without his ult being up, and a weak visual presence (in terms of spell effects mostly, iirc). Hilariously enough, new Xerath's Q and E visual are painfully bad (blue stick ftw), he is still mostly unable to kill people without ult, and the nerf range on Q/E change have made his laning hugely clunky.

The passive change, the removal of the ms boost and the face-palm inducing range mechanic on the stun make him even more vulnerable to gap closers, the now all-skillshot kit makes him a pain to play against any mobile champ, especially since they kept the 0.5 cast time on his spells. All the issues mentionned by the Xerath players, which Xelnath said he was representing, where either ignored or made worse.

Overall this rework started really well, and quickly became a train-wreck. It was painful to see the discourse gradually change from "let's make this champion funnier" to "free magic pen is toxic for the game". They removed its uniqueness and made him into a worse version of the already existing champion pool.

I believe they invested a lot of time into this rework, realized they were going nowhere, released what they had just to get rid of it, and decorated the whole thing with their usual enlightened speaches about game experience and design. I don't see what else could explain the decisions taken despite the repeated protests in the rework thread.
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-11 00:36:13
July 11 2014 00:20 GMT
#1086
While it is cool looking, I actually don't like the soulstealer vlad from a design perspective. The big point about characterization and skins is that they should have a unique and recognizable theme and silhouette. Riot's been pretty good about this on newer projects with really distinctive features. (Jinx braids/Braum stache,shield etc etc.)

So what is Vlad?

1. Blood orb and effects
2. Cape and big high collar (this isn't very distinctive as many champions have these)
3. super pale
4. White hair (pointy)

This is how you look at him and know its vlad. If you have a skin you can depart from these slightly (marquis has hair down etc), but you have to keep most of them consistent to make the character vlad. Now vlad already doesn't have the most distinctive characterization, so you can't just heavily adapt every single one of his features in one skin.

The soulstealer skin just tosses all that out the window and basically makes a new character

1. No blood at all, blood ball is replaced with lantern trinket thing
2. Sort of cape, sort of collar
3. Green
4. No hair at all.

If you showed this skin to newer players I really really doubt they would be able to identify the character, hell, I had a hard time. Not only that but they throw a bunch of confusing additional features that are actually on other champions to make new players even more confused like the purple color and the wierd bone shoulder spikes (this is actually really stepping into new Karmas design space: white long shoulder spikes, green effects, purple cape), orb looks like thresh lantern, etc. I know he has he has some pretty designwise awful skins already (nosferatu WTF is this) from the old days but I thought Riot was moving towards a more cohesive design process. This just doesn't read easily.

[image loading]
[image loading]
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-11 00:36:55
July 11 2014 00:35 GMT
#1087
On July 11 2014 09:01 Slusher wrote:
implying that he was not good even if they did nothing? because he was.

Absolutely, I was in favour of nothing being done to him at all. If he had to change, his passive and E were the most underwhelming parts his kit. His passive especially, A long range mage doesn't need an armour boosting passive.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-11 00:52:13
July 11 2014 00:50 GMT
#1088
I'm pretty sure the new Vlad skin IS supposed to be a juxtaposition of both champions(thresh/vlad). I've never been a big fan of the "new players are idiots" argument but in this case I will accept it as valid, that said I really like the thematic idea and hope to see more.

it kinda reminds me of like the SFxT skins where the characters are cosplaying as someone from the opposite brand.
Carrilord has arrived.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35155 Posts
July 11 2014 00:58 GMT
#1089
On July 11 2014 09:20 sob3k wrote:-snip-

The "long white shoulder spikes" on Karma is her mantle, something adorned by high ranking or influential people in Ionia. See: Irelia.
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
July 11 2014 01:01 GMT
#1090
I like the idea of "soulstealer Vlad" but I think it just doesn't look good enough to spend RP on it. It's not THAT ugly, but not worth it, especially considering Blood Lord Vlad is one of the best legendaries.
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 11 2014 01:27 GMT
#1091
There you go. Good luck.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/league-of-legends/461690-riot-graves
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Ghost-z
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1291 Posts
July 11 2014 02:06 GMT
#1092
Aatrox has a bugged global ranged Q on the PBE.
Fairy Tales when you're a child begin with "Once upon a time" and when you're an adult begin, "If elected I promise..."
miicah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia2470 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-11 02:09:13
July 11 2014 02:08 GMT
#1093
What number of champs do you think Riot should stop at? We are at 119 now, I don't think any more than 125 is necessary. With 3 months between releases this seems ok.

EDIT: For reference http://community.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-skins/hzVsacq5-test-for-flat-format-but-also-champion-update-running-discussion-because-why-not?comment=00100000
@miicah88
Ghost-z
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1291 Posts
July 11 2014 02:15 GMT
#1094
If they rework old champions like Sion and Poppy its basically a new champion. I don't think any limit is good but at least 3 months between releases is fine with the other content they release.
Fairy Tales when you're a child begin with "Once upon a time" and when you're an adult begin, "If elected I promise..."
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-11 02:36:48
July 11 2014 02:19 GMT
#1095
LCS is going to expand to 10 teams in both NA and EU for the 2015 season.

Edit: I guess the title says these are just considerations. So might not go though, but it seems like it would be weird to bring this up and just scrap it.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
July 11 2014 02:32 GMT
#1096
its gonna get ugly.
I come in for the scraps
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-11 02:46:51
July 11 2014 02:44 GMT
#1097
On July 11 2014 11:19 onlywonderboy wrote:
LCS is going to expand to 10 teams in both NA and EU for the 2015 season.

Edit: I guess the title says these are just considerations. So might not go though, but it seems like it would be weird to bring this up and just scrap it.

this would be awesome, about time!
Now if they could only find a way to shorten each season.
Oh hey, they're looking into doing longer playoffs, like I mentioned a while ago.

I wonder if they would be willing to do 2 5-man groups for season format.
liftlift > tsm
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
July 11 2014 03:00 GMT
#1098
On July 11 2014 11:44 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2014 11:19 onlywonderboy wrote:
LCS is going to expand to 10 teams in both NA and EU for the 2015 season.

Edit: I guess the title says these are just considerations. So might not go though, but it seems like it would be weird to bring this up and just scrap it.

this would be awesome, about time!
Now if they could only find a way to shorten each season.
Oh hey, they're looking into doing longer playoffs, like I mentioned a while ago.

I wonder if they would be willing to do 2 5-man groups for season format.

I'm would be most excited for the end of Super Weeks. Those are always super hard to keep up with from a spectator position.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 11 2014 03:10 GMT
#1099
On July 11 2014 12:00 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2014 11:44 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 11 2014 11:19 onlywonderboy wrote:
LCS is going to expand to 10 teams in both NA and EU for the 2015 season.

Edit: I guess the title says these are just considerations. So might not go though, but it seems like it would be weird to bring this up and just scrap it.

this would be awesome, about time!
Now if they could only find a way to shorten each season.
Oh hey, they're looking into doing longer playoffs, like I mentioned a while ago.

I wonder if they would be willing to do 2 5-man groups for season format.

I'm would be most excited for the end of Super Weeks. Those are always super hard to keep up with from a spectator position.

super week sounds like a cool idea, but it simply was too much for spectators to keep up with in a week.
I wonder how they plan on making seasons shorter, while adding 2 more teams.

It would be pretty cool if they did stuff like Thursday and Monday Night Football, where 1 match is the highlight match for those days.
liftlift > tsm
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-11 03:13:41
July 11 2014 03:13 GMT
#1100
On July 11 2014 11:44 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2014 11:19 onlywonderboy wrote:
LCS is going to expand to 10 teams in both NA and EU for the 2015 season.

Edit: I guess the title says these are just considerations. So might not go though, but it seems like it would be weird to bring this up and just scrap it.

this would be awesome, about time!
Now if they could only find a way to shorten each season.
Oh hey, they're looking into doing longer playoffs, like I mentioned a while ago.

I wonder if they would be willing to do 2 5-man groups for season format.


10 man just means more Velocity e-sports and XDG. I don't like it.

Also does that mean you just play against each team twice per season instead of four times? Considering no super week and all.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Prev 1 53 54 55 56 57 72 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
SEL S2 Championship: Ro16
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 200
RuFF_SC2 163
NeuroSwarm 93
Ketroc 38
StarCraft: Brood War
Sharp 95
ggaemo 65
NaDa 49
Noble 32
Icarus 9
Dota 2
monkeys_forever845
LuMiX0
League of Legends
JimRising 725
Counter-Strike
semphis_20
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor120
Other Games
tarik_tv12575
summit1g9692
shahzam746
WinterStarcraft584
C9.Mang0440
ViBE232
PiGStarcraft146
Maynarde135
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1037
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH77
• practicex 19
• OhrlRock 1
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1269
• Lourlo741
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
6h 28m
Queen vs HyuN
EffOrt vs Calm
Wardi Open
7h 28m
RotterdaM Event
11h 28m
Replay Cast
20h 28m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 6h
Rush vs TBD
Jaedong vs Mong
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 7h
Cure vs Classic
ByuN vs TBD
herO vs TBD
TBD vs NightMare
TBD vs MaxPax
OSC
1d 8h
PiGosaur Monday
1d 20h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
herO vs TBD
Royal vs Barracks
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
3 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
LiuLi Cup
4 days
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs herO
Cure vs Rogue
Classic vs HeRoMaRinE
Cosmonarchy
4 days
OyAji vs Sziky
Sziky vs WolFix
WolFix vs OyAji
BSL Team Wars
4 days
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
BSL Team Wars
4 days
Team Hawk vs Team Bonyth
SC Evo League
5 days
TaeJa vs Cure
Rogue vs threepoint
ByuN vs Creator
MaNa vs Classic
[BSL 2025] Weekly
5 days
SC Evo League
6 days
BSL Team Wars
6 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
BSL Team Wars
6 days
Team Dewalt vs Team Sziky
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLAN 3
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
Acropolis #4 - TS1
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
EC S1
Sisters' Call Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.