EPT[Patch 4.8] RIP Pantheon General Discussion - Page 81
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
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Duvon
Sweden2360 Posts
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On June 02 2014 20:50 Doctorbeat wrote: Aaaand EUW is ded. Nukeduck/Mithy revenge ddos | ||
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wussleeQ
United States3130 Posts
On June 02 2014 21:10 obesechicken13 wrote: Can anyone beat 5 intermediate bots solo? Like what's the highest number you can do? i'd imagine you would need either yi or udyr to do it. will test... edit 1-holy shit bots are smarter now edit 2- alright so did the 1v5 vs intermediate bots with udyr after like 4 retries with early deaths. the beginning was shaky but after i got 20 stacks on occult it was a breeze. my only proof though is this empty score card  + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NTZASs9.png) and as for the team comp i put myself up against it was... jarvan yi top ezreal mid annie shen bot since i'm guessing it really matters for this lol | ||
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-Zoda-
France3578 Posts
Maybe it's time for NiP to scout new talents and train them thanks to Alex's experience ? | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
Not sure if it is still possible. | ||
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On June 02 2014 21:22 wussleeQ wrote: i'd imagine you would need either yi or udyr to do it. will test... edit 1-holy shit bots are smarter now edit 2- alright so did the 1v5 vs intermediate bots with udyr after like 4 retries with early deaths. the beginning was shaky but after i got 20 stacks on occult it was a breeze. my only proof though is this empty score card + Show Spoiler + and as for the team comp i put myself up against it was... jarvan yi top ezreal mid annie shen bot since i'm guessing it really matters for this lol That's pretty sick. Yeah, the traditional theory behind 1v5 was just to use a hard scaling ranged ADC to kill them all from a range 1v1 but now they group and push as a team after some time so you gotta take that inhib fast. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
On June 02 2014 22:19 Nos- wrote: new bot ai is really messing with the efficiency of my wotd farming Just play something that scales decently or pushes hard. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On June 02 2014 20:49 Alaric wrote: Yeah, 'cause cc is the only way to protect someone. Heals, dashes, shields, speed boosts etc. mean nothing, sure. The difference is that if you have to run from someone else, if you slow them people don't go as far and move slower so you can get more autos in and get less isolated than if running from Olaf. On the other hand Olaf's using his ult, when it's down he's a sitting duck. If you survive he can't even run way or, if you lead him away from the fight, regroup with his team. His Q is meh as a defensive cc. His W is useless if he's not in melee range to lifesteal. Pros are the most armed to deal with Olaf's ult since they aren't Gold scrubs unable to even conceive that using Lulu's or Orianna's W on your carries instead of him will let them dodge the axe and keep their distance. That Olaf does jack shit against poke because he can't even manmode the way Jax can E-flash-QE or dumb-Riven can E-flash-W into the enemy team. That if you can drag a fight or force his ult early he becomes weak as fuck, even worse than lategame Twitch with his ult on cd when a fight starts. 'cause remember that Olaf falls off late because he can't itemise properly (squishy if not built full tank, no damage anymore if he skips damage items) but also because lategame 6s doesn't mean squat when you aren't an assassin and as such his ult can be stalled out (unless there's like Sivir+Karma or Lulu in your team but then you'd rather play against that than Ziggs/Nidalee/LB or Lucian/Twitch/Kog anyway). There's a difference between "no counterplay" and "simple counterplay that people are too dumb to conceive" like non-cc based peeling. (Now try to "counterplay" Rengar when you need Exhaust or instant point'n'click cc (which is becoming more and more scarce in the game) to prevent him from instantly killing a guy even with 100 armour. And then you still have the whole job of killing him before he escapes.) The problem with Olaf was they took a champion that had a coherent kit, but was overtuned (plus in the perfect meta with perfect items yada yada yada), nerfed him, and declared the kit itself to be the problem. Then they created an incoherent kit that has a bunch of power that can't be utilized in AS steroids and Lifesteal. | ||
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
That being said, they handled Olaf terribly. They made him unplayable for almost a year because his axe slow decayed so quickly. He's not Lee Sin, he can't deal with that. And Lee Sin's cripple gave 20% more slow than Olaf's axes did. How screwed up is that? And then they slapped him with a 25% cooldown increase on his w, and got rid of a lot of his innate tankiness, while making a lot of items that were good on him cost more at the same time. And this was at a time when assassins made someone like Olaf who could be super tanky and deal lots of damage extremely, extremely good. They essentially destroyed Olaf to ram an assassin meta down our throats (+Renekton... sorry Olaf, no berserkers allowed). In the meantime the game evolved a lot- mobility became way more important, support mids with massive slow started getting played, etc. There's a lot more champions capable of making Olaf manageable than there used to be.The rework didn't really change a whole hell of a lot about the champion that couldn't have been done incrementally, they just seemed completely fine with "removing" the problem for an extended period of time. And that just sucked. I think the game could probably cope with an Olaf much closer to his peak strength now. In the meantime, I'm fine with playing him now because I don't really give a shit about how strong he is, he's still fun to play and not irredeemably weak in his current state. | ||
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Celial
2602 Posts
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
edit: Reason I'm asking is, I don't find any match ups unwinable - the ones that can survive/go equal you outscale anyway or offer more team utility with the AoE stun (which honestly is an ultimate on low CD). | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
Now that Jax is more popular, I can kind of see Veigar being better - especially when nowadays Jax always builds teo damage items. Veigar still needs to compete with Syndra - and possibly Mordekaiser too - as the anti-Jax mid laner. | ||
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On June 02 2014 15:20 Ryuu314 wrote: Jax still scales plenty hard. He's easily the hardest scaling melee champ in the game atm. Poppy disagrees with you, though you may not count her. | ||
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dae
Canada1600 Posts
On June 03 2014 01:25 Jek wrote: So, I've been spamming Veigar over the last few weeks. Why isn't he played more in high Elo? Dat damage and teamfight power. edit: Reason I'm asking is, I don't find any match ups unwinable - the ones that can survive/go equal you outscale anyway or offer more team utility with the AoE stun (which honestly is an ultimate on low CD). Zed who gets a hexdrinker is an unwinnable matchup A good Syndra will stomp you hard in lane, though if you can get through it your pretty good vs her mid-lategame. Leblanc is scary too. Stuff like Nocturne is really hard to play against. Also, a good support with micaels, +everyone getting banshess lategame makes your life miserable. He can be very very good in soloq, its just there are counters to him. If your duoing with a jungle though, it's REALLY easy to get fed off midlane. He is also really feast or famine, so get used to either getting stomped or getting fed, there's not much space in between for him. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 03 2014 01:25 Jek wrote: So, I've been spamming Veigar over the last few weeks. Why isn't he played more in high Elo? Dat damage and teamfight power. edit: Reason I'm asking is, I don't find any match ups unwinable - the ones that can survive/go equal you outscale anyway or offer more team utility with the AoE stun (which honestly is an ultimate on low CD). There are a couple challenger level veiger. Nyjacky and dabox. Veigar still vulnerable to being caught out by shit like rengar, and can be dove on easily if you bait out his stun. He doesn't roam well, nor does he waveclear as fast as current meta counterparts. His short range and low mobility usually leaves him to only spam abilities on frontliners (unless he has flash up). Banshees is overwhelmingly the popular mr choice, also leaving him a sad sad yordle when it comes to late game. That being said. He's got some sick damages. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On June 03 2014 01:36 wei2coolman wrote: There are a couple challenger level veiger. Nyjacky and dabox. Veigar still vulnerable to being caught out by shit like rengar, and can be dove on easily if you bait out his stun. He doesn't roam well, nor does he waveclear as fast as current meta counterparts. His short range and low mobility usually leaves him to only spam abilities on frontliners (unless he has flash up). Banshees is overwhelmingly the popular mr choice, also leaving him a sad sad yordle when it comes to late game. That being said. He's got some sick damages. Veigar's probably one of the few APs that can reverse one shot Rengar if he fails though. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 03 2014 01:42 obesechicken13 wrote: Veigar's probably one of the few APs that can reverse one shot Rengar if he fails though. Maybe the second you see the '!' mark you put stun right on top of your model. So only 1 q procs on you? Counterplay discovered! | ||
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