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[Patch 4.8] RIP Pantheon General Discussion - Page 78

Forum Index > LoL General
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PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
June 02 2014 03:06 GMT
#1541
On June 02 2014 11:18 kongoline wrote:
so xerath has 1.7% pickrate now, guess rework which was supposed to make him more popular failed lol

He's no longer the magic damage carry he once was, now he's just long range generimage.
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
June 02 2014 03:57 GMT
#1542
Yea...the Xerath rework was a complete and utter failure. It didn't help his pickrate. If anything it probably hurt it since the people who actually liked and played Xerath lost their champion. His winrate didn't really change either.
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-02 04:07:07
June 02 2014 04:04 GMT
#1543
A lot of reworks completely suck, to be honest.

EDIT: Olaf, Jax (people think new Jax scales hard, lololol), Corki, Phage/Triforce, Flat/%Pen, AD/Crit/ASp scaling/cost.

I could go on about the horrid changes they've made to this game.
Writer@WriterYamato
justiceknight
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Singapore5741 Posts
June 02 2014 04:08 GMT
#1544
On June 02 2014 13:04 yamato77 wrote:
A lot of reworks completely suck, to be honest.


agreed, rito destroyed more heroes than actually solved their problems. I rather they release more heroes like in s2 than REDUCING the amount of playable heroes.

on the other hand am i safe to say LMQ is overrated by losing 2 games now?
InfSunday
Profile Joined March 2013
United States735 Posts
June 02 2014 04:11 GMT
#1545
On June 02 2014 13:08 justiceknight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 13:04 yamato77 wrote:
A lot of reworks completely suck, to be honest.


on the other hand am i safe to say LMQ is overrated by losing 2 games now?


It depends. I thought the general consensus was that they're good but predictably snowbally and therefore not god-tier - which is what we've seen with the two losses. But I've seen some people say they're easily #1 team NA - so you'd be correct in that instance.
Call me Sunday
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
June 02 2014 04:12 GMT
#1546
On June 02 2014 13:04 yamato77 wrote:
A lot of reworks completely suck, to be honest.


I donno.

According to this list of champion reworks:


Janna Visual Upgrade 2011-07-25
Kayle Visual Upgrade and Kit Rework 2011-07-25
Tryndamere Visual Upgrade and Kit Rework 2011-07-25
Gangplank Visual Upgrade 2011-11-25
Ashe Visual Upgrade 2012-05-23
Katarina Visual Upgrade and Kit Rework 2012-08-09
Soraka Visual Upgrade 2012-09-19
Twisted Fate Visual Upgrade 2012-10-03
Nidalee Visual Upgrade 2012-11-14
Annie Visual Upgrade 2013-01-16
Karma Full Relaunch 2013-03-14
Sejuani Visual Upgrade and Kit Rework 2013-04-02
Trundle Full Relaunch 2013-04-02
Master Yi Visual Upgrade and Kit Rework 2013-07-30
Garen Visual Upgrade 2013-10-01
Rammus Texture Upgrade 2013-10-29
Sivir Visual Upgrade and Kit Rework 2013-10-29
Nasus Visual Upgrade 2013-11-21
Anivia Texture Upgrade 2013-12-13
Xerath Kit Rework 2014-02-11
Skarner Kit Rework 2014-02-11
Heimerdinger Visual Upgrade and Kit Rework 2014-03-18
Kassadin Kit Rework 2014-03-18
Gragas Kit Rework 2014-04-03
Rengar Kit Rework 2014-04-03
Twitch Visual Upgrade 2014-04-22


I can't comment on Tryndamere or Kayle because that's too early for me. For the rest, I think:

Katarina: she is better after rework, although eventually she kind of turned to what she was before, especially after her last R changes. In general, I think rework made her immediately OP, but she did not become fundamentally better
Karma: rework made her playable. But I have to say she was so crappy before that even a monkey could make her better.
Sejuani: rework made her OP but I don't think she became fundamentally better (especially after the subsequent nerfs)
Yi: he is definitely better after the rework.
Sivir: she is definitely better after the rework.
Xerath: rework made him weaker
Skarner: rework made him weaker (?)
Heimer: rework made him OP, then nerfed into hell
Kassadin: reworked, still always banned.
Gragas: can't comment
Rengar: he is OP now due to his Q critting bug, not his rework
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
June 02 2014 04:14 GMT
#1547
None of the things I mentioned are even on there.

A rework doesn't necessarily mean a change to every skill.
Writer@WriterYamato
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
June 02 2014 04:17 GMT
#1548
Not sure about the Skarner rework making him weaker, hard to tell. The increased dmg output from Atk Spe being provided from Q is not an insignificant boost and the shorter cd on W helped him bunch too. I guess it depends on how you value a significantly faster clear and DPS to the permaslow utility but I don't think it's necessarily clear-cut
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
June 02 2014 04:18 GMT
#1549
On June 02 2014 13:11 InfSunday wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 13:08 justiceknight wrote:
On June 02 2014 13:04 yamato77 wrote:
A lot of reworks completely suck, to be honest.


on the other hand am i safe to say LMQ is overrated by losing 2 games now?


It depends. I thought the general consensus was that they're good but predictably snowbally and therefore not god-tier - which is what we've seen with the two losses. But I've seen some people say they're easily #1 team NA - so you'd be correct in that instance.

Did people really expect a 2nd/3rd tier Chinese team to do better than they are?

I mean, given the relative performance of NA and China in the past, I don't think it was ever realistic to expect outrageous things from them.
Moderator
EquilasH
Profile Joined April 2009
Denmark2142 Posts
June 02 2014 04:19 GMT
#1550
On June 02 2014 10:27 Zdrastochye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 07:34 Sufficiency wrote:
TLDR: I think this game is not pay-to-win, but if you pay more to unlock game contents, you will have a far easier time winning and you can reach your goal far faster.


Perhaps, but I think I can hit plat 5 with just 1 runepage and 14 champions, it just comes down to having a roster of champions who work in the current meta.


I'm willing to bet that NO ONE can do that.
wat
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
June 02 2014 04:22 GMT
#1551
disagree with kat and sivir, the old kat was fun to play with the choices on killer instincts and the multiple ways you could level her skills. you could also go full ap/ad/tank builds. Now you always go AP and there is no meaningful choices, just skill spamming. how anyone can think the kat rework was good is mind boggling.

Sivir is more personal preference, I think her ricochet feels extremely clunky to use now and her E mechanics are worse then before imo. also taking away attack speed from her ult was lame because you used to be able to build teams around that, now its just a generic talisman thing.
I come in for the scraps
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
June 02 2014 04:23 GMT
#1552
The thing about LMQ is what their goal is.


Do they just want to live in the US and play the game? If so, they are more than good enough to secure top 5 and prevent relegation. They don't need to improve and just play how they are currently play - and they'll be fine for years while keeping a 3-5th spot on NA.

Do they want to play for top WC finishes? If so, they will go 1st in NA and have a shot at world's (well, assuming they get rid of NoName...).

I think they are just going to try to stay here. They are not going to shoot for WC.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
June 02 2014 04:23 GMT
#1553
On June 02 2014 13:19 EquilasH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 10:27 Zdrastochye wrote:
On June 02 2014 07:34 Sufficiency wrote:
TLDR: I think this game is not pay-to-win, but if you pay more to unlock game contents, you will have a far easier time winning and you can reach your goal far faster.


Perhaps, but I think I can hit plat 5 with just 1 runepage and 14 champions, it just comes down to having a roster of champions who work in the current meta.


I'm willing to bet that NO ONE can do that.


theres people in diamond 1 and challenger that only have one champion played in all their games so 14 would actually be quite a lot. Karthus seems to be a pretty common one trick pony champion in high elo.
I come in for the scraps
EquilasH
Profile Joined April 2009
Denmark2142 Posts
June 02 2014 04:24 GMT
#1554
On June 02 2014 13:23 VayneAuthority wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 13:19 EquilasH wrote:
On June 02 2014 10:27 Zdrastochye wrote:
On June 02 2014 07:34 Sufficiency wrote:
TLDR: I think this game is not pay-to-win, but if you pay more to unlock game contents, you will have a far easier time winning and you can reach your goal far faster.


Perhaps, but I think I can hit plat 5 with just 1 runepage and 14 champions, it just comes down to having a roster of champions who work in the current meta.


I'm willing to bet that NO ONE can do that.


theres people in diamond 1 and challenger that only have one champion played in all their games so 14 would actually be quite a lot. Karthus seems to be a pretty common one trick pony champion in high elo.


You realize you'd need 16 champions to play ranked, right ?
wat
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
June 02 2014 04:24 GMT
#1555
On June 02 2014 13:22 VayneAuthority wrote:
disagree with kat and sivir, the old kat was fun to play with the choices on killer instincts and the multiple ways you could level her skills. you could also go full ap/ad/tank builds. Now you always go AP and there is no meaningful choices, just skill spamming. how anyone can think the kat rework was good is mind boggling.

Sivir is more personal preference, I think her ricochet feels extremely clunky to use now and her E mechanics are worse then before imo. also taking away attack speed from her ult was lame because you used to be able to build teams around that, now its just a generic talisman thing.

Old kat way better than new kat.
liftlift > tsm
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
June 02 2014 04:35 GMT
#1556
kat is 50x worse after the rework
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
June 02 2014 04:38 GMT
#1557
On June 02 2014 13:12 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 13:04 yamato77 wrote:
A lot of reworks completely suck, to be honest.


I donno.

According to this list of champion reworks:


Janna Visual Upgrade 2011-07-25
Kayle Visual Upgrade and Kit Rework 2011-07-25
Tryndamere Visual Upgrade and Kit Rework 2011-07-25
Gangplank Visual Upgrade 2011-11-25
Ashe Visual Upgrade 2012-05-23
Katarina Visual Upgrade and Kit Rework 2012-08-09
Soraka Visual Upgrade 2012-09-19
Twisted Fate Visual Upgrade 2012-10-03
Nidalee Visual Upgrade 2012-11-14
Annie Visual Upgrade 2013-01-16
Karma Full Relaunch 2013-03-14
Sejuani Visual Upgrade and Kit Rework 2013-04-02
Trundle Full Relaunch 2013-04-02
Master Yi Visual Upgrade and Kit Rework 2013-07-30
Garen Visual Upgrade 2013-10-01
Rammus Texture Upgrade 2013-10-29
Sivir Visual Upgrade and Kit Rework 2013-10-29
Nasus Visual Upgrade 2013-11-21
Anivia Texture Upgrade 2013-12-13
Xerath Kit Rework 2014-02-11
Skarner Kit Rework 2014-02-11
Heimerdinger Visual Upgrade and Kit Rework 2014-03-18
Kassadin Kit Rework 2014-03-18
Gragas Kit Rework 2014-04-03
Rengar Kit Rework 2014-04-03
Twitch Visual Upgrade 2014-04-22


I can't comment on Tryndamere or Kayle because that's too early for me. For the rest, I think:

Katarina: she is better after rework, although eventually she kind of turned to what she was before, especially after her last R changes. In general, I think rework made her immediately OP, but she did not become fundamentally better
Karma: rework made her playable. But I have to say she was so crappy before that even a monkey could make her better.
Sejuani: rework made her OP but I don't think she became fundamentally better (especially after the subsequent nerfs)
Yi: he is definitely better after the rework.
Sivir: she is definitely better after the rework.
Xerath: rework made him weaker
Skarner: rework made him weaker (?)
Heimer: rework made him OP, then nerfed into hell
Kassadin: reworked, still always banned.
Gragas: can't comment
Rengar: he is OP now due to his Q critting bug, not his rework

Tryndameres rework is literally them removing health costs and swapping his crit to his passive and stuff. he's basically the same champion tbh.
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
June 02 2014 04:47 GMT
#1558
On June 02 2014 13:19 EquilasH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 10:27 Zdrastochye wrote:
On June 02 2014 07:34 Sufficiency wrote:
TLDR: I think this game is not pay-to-win, but if you pay more to unlock game contents, you will have a far easier time winning and you can reach your goal far faster.


Perhaps, but I think I can hit plat 5 with just 1 runepage and 14 champions, it just comes down to having a roster of champions who work in the current meta.


I'm willing to bet that NO ONE can do that.


My concern is mostly that I can't play the same champion in every game.

For example, I feel my Katarina is good enough to carry every game in low plat (ok well, every game that does not have LB on the other side). But I don't get to play mid every game. Often I get stuck on a role I don't know how to play, and with a very limited pool to choose from on my smurf I can't even counterpick, so I just straight up lose.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
KissBlade
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States5718 Posts
June 02 2014 04:52 GMT
#1559
On June 02 2014 13:18 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 13:11 InfSunday wrote:
On June 02 2014 13:08 justiceknight wrote:
On June 02 2014 13:04 yamato77 wrote:
A lot of reworks completely suck, to be honest.


on the other hand am i safe to say LMQ is overrated by losing 2 games now?


It depends. I thought the general consensus was that they're good but predictably snowbally and therefore not god-tier - which is what we've seen with the two losses. But I've seen some people say they're easily #1 team NA - so you'd be correct in that instance.

Did people really expect a 2nd/3rd tier Chinese team to do better than they are?

I mean, given the relative performance of NA and China in the past, I don't think it was ever realistic to expect outrageous things from them.


Not sure if you agree but what do you think of their performance versus when they first came to the US? To be honest, I thought they got a lot better. When they first popped up, I wasn't too impressed by them. Vasili looked like Chinese ADC so they had that going for their team & Ackerman was Godlike. However, since then, I thought NoName, XWX, Mor really grew into their own. Oddly enough, I thought they really grew within the NA scene and I don't think they would've yielded the same results had they stayed in CN.
EquilasH
Profile Joined April 2009
Denmark2142 Posts
June 02 2014 05:06 GMT
#1560
On June 02 2014 13:47 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 13:19 EquilasH wrote:
On June 02 2014 10:27 Zdrastochye wrote:
On June 02 2014 07:34 Sufficiency wrote:
TLDR: I think this game is not pay-to-win, but if you pay more to unlock game contents, you will have a far easier time winning and you can reach your goal far faster.


Perhaps, but I think I can hit plat 5 with just 1 runepage and 14 champions, it just comes down to having a roster of champions who work in the current meta.


I'm willing to bet that NO ONE can do that.


My concern is mostly that I can't play the same champion in every game.

For example, I feel my Katarina is good enough to carry every game in low plat (ok well, every game that does not have LB on the other side). But I don't get to play mid every game. Often I get stuck on a role I don't know how to play, and with a very limited pool to choose from on my smurf I can't even counterpick, so I just straight up lose.


I just made a joke because he said 14 champions instead of 16 champions, but it looks like people missed it.
wat
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