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[Patch 4.8] RIP Pantheon General Discussion - Page 74

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 72 73 74 75 76 92 Next
Nemireck
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1875 Posts
June 01 2014 03:29 GMT
#1461
On June 01 2014 12:15 Frolossus wrote:
shouldn't people theoretically be playing the same number of games from blue and purple side? meaning each player's individual win rate would average out?



Yes.
Teamwork is awesome... As long as your team is doing all the work!
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35120 Posts
June 01 2014 03:30 GMT
#1462
On June 01 2014 12:15 Frolossus wrote:
shouldn't people theoretically be playing the same number of games from blue and purple side? meaning each player's individual win rate would average out?

I don't recall Riot ever saying they try to even out which side you're on.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
June 01 2014 03:47 GMT
#1463
On June 01 2014 12:30 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2014 12:15 Frolossus wrote:
shouldn't people theoretically be playing the same number of games from blue and purple side? meaning each player's individual win rate would average out?

I don't recall Riot ever saying they try to even out which side you're on.

It's assumed 50/50 chance.
liftlift > tsm
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
June 01 2014 03:52 GMT
#1464
On June 01 2014 12:29 Nemireck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2014 12:15 Frolossus wrote:
shouldn't people theoretically be playing the same number of games from blue and purple side? meaning each player's individual win rate would average out?



Yes.

so why is this an issue in any non-tournament setting at all?
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35120 Posts
June 01 2014 03:53 GMT
#1465
On June 01 2014 12:52 Frolossus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2014 12:29 Nemireck wrote:
On June 01 2014 12:15 Frolossus wrote:
shouldn't people theoretically be playing the same number of games from blue and purple side? meaning each player's individual win rate would average out?



Yes.

so why is this an issue in any non-tournament setting at all?

Because promo series don't have an even # of games.
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-01 03:56:32
June 01 2014 03:55 GMT
#1466
On June 01 2014 12:53 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2014 12:52 Frolossus wrote:
On June 01 2014 12:29 Nemireck wrote:
On June 01 2014 12:15 Frolossus wrote:
shouldn't people theoretically be playing the same number of games from blue and purple side? meaning each player's individual win rate would average out?



Yes.

so why is this an issue in any non-tournament setting at all?

Because promo series don't have an even # of games.

i suppose, but even then you get more than one series to try and promote so it should still even itself out for you.
also would it even be a 5% difference over a 3-5 game sample size? and it requires the assumption that all games are played out during the series to get an odd number.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19573 Posts
June 01 2014 03:59 GMT
#1467
On June 01 2014 12:52 Frolossus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2014 12:29 Nemireck wrote:
On June 01 2014 12:15 Frolossus wrote:
shouldn't people theoretically be playing the same number of games from blue and purple side? meaning each player's individual win rate would average out?



Yes.

so why is this an issue in any non-tournament setting at all?


Because people care about tournaments?
Freeeeeeedom
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-01 04:19:59
June 01 2014 04:18 GMT
#1468
On June 01 2014 12:15 Frolossus wrote:
shouldn't people theoretically be playing the same number of games from blue and purple side? meaning each player's individual win rate would average out?

theoretically you can dodge every time you get purple side

personally I think that having the option of flipping the map so that you can see your base in the bottom left whether you are purple or blue is a fantastic idea, if it is at all achievable (I know nothing about that)
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
June 01 2014 04:29 GMT
#1469
On June 01 2014 12:52 Frolossus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2014 12:29 Nemireck wrote:
On June 01 2014 12:15 Frolossus wrote:
shouldn't people theoretically be playing the same number of games from blue and purple side? meaning each player's individual win rate would average out?



Yes.

so why is this an issue in any non-tournament setting at all?


Because that's bad game design and lame?

Thought experiment:

blue team wins 100% of the time, purple loses 100% of the time

players play equal games from each side, still have even winrates. Is this ok?

In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-01 04:31:45
June 01 2014 04:30 GMT
#1470
On June 01 2014 12:30 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2014 12:15 Frolossus wrote:
shouldn't people theoretically be playing the same number of games from blue and purple side? meaning each player's individual win rate would average out?

I don't recall Riot ever saying they try to even out which side you're on.


Yes but how could it be anything but a 50/50 chance? How would the game decide that player X versus Player Y was going to have more games as blue side? So long as the chance to get blue side is actually 50% over the long run people will play about half their games on blue side.

The only way around this is to dodge when you get purple side, which if the blue side advantage really is that strong (and we have reason to believe it is) is an MMR positive dodge. (I.E. you should be dodging purple side games)

If a significant number of people were dodging purple side games then the real win rate of blue side would be reduced. Basically assume that someone plays 100% of their games on blue side, MMR would dictate that they win about 50% of their games. If a lot of people did this the advantage of playing on blue side would actually go away. But we don't really have reason to believe that anyone (let alone enough) people dodge purple side games to have this effect.

On June 01 2014 13:18 Scip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2014 12:15 Frolossus wrote:
shouldn't people theoretically be playing the same number of games from blue and purple side? meaning each player's individual win rate would average out?

theoretically you can dodge every time you get purple side

personally I think that having the option of flipping the map so that you can see your base in the bottom left whether you are purple or blue is a fantastic idea, if it is at all achievable (I know nothing about that)


This really is (If possible, i know nothing about this kind of geometry) the best possible solution that doesn't require changing the map
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
June 01 2014 04:35 GMT
#1471
On June 01 2014 12:15 Frolossus wrote:
shouldn't people theoretically be playing the same number of games from blue and purple side? meaning each player's individual win rate would average out?


Yes, and this is what I am seeing. You pretty much have a 50% chance of being on blue side.

But:

1. Since I know at champion select if I am blue or purple, I can, say, troll at champion select if I am on the purple side. Hopefully someone will dodge for me, then I can possibly avoid a purple game.

2. Say Champion X is deemed OP by the community (reasonable or not) and became first pick first ban status. Then the win rate of that champion will become inflated simply because that champion is always played on the blue side.

3. Competitive. How do you decide who plays on blue on the final bo5, for example?
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
June 01 2014 04:36 GMT
#1472
I would hazard a guess that they aren't addressing this issue because it will be addressed in the SR graphic overhaul (probably with flipped cameras as everyone has mention). The only reason I can think of them not using flipped cams is that the backsides of the current SR elements that are hidden currently aren't up to par.

In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35120 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-01 04:47:01
June 01 2014 04:39 GMT
#1473
On June 01 2014 12:55 Frolossus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2014 12:53 Gahlo wrote:
On June 01 2014 12:52 Frolossus wrote:
On June 01 2014 12:29 Nemireck wrote:
On June 01 2014 12:15 Frolossus wrote:
shouldn't people theoretically be playing the same number of games from blue and purple side? meaning each player's individual win rate would average out?



Yes.

so why is this an issue in any non-tournament setting at all?

Because promo series don't have an even # of games.

i suppose, but even then you get more than one series to try and promote so it should still even itself out for you.
also would it even be a 5% difference over a 3-5 game sample size? and it requires the assumption that all games are played out during the series to get an odd number.

Rough math says +/-14.95%, assuming all noise is canceled on fully blue or fully purple series(which do happen).

Granted, this is an extreme, but that means that BBB wins a series ~26% more often than PPP.
Nemireck
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1875 Posts
June 01 2014 05:21 GMT
#1474
On June 01 2014 12:52 Frolossus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2014 12:29 Nemireck wrote:
On June 01 2014 12:15 Frolossus wrote:
shouldn't people theoretically be playing the same number of games from blue and purple side? meaning each player's individual win rate would average out?



Yes.

so why is this an issue in any non-tournament setting at all?


It would have an effect on some of your promo series, but in the long run the ladder would still work fine.

If your goal is simply to climb the ranked ladder then, sure, in SoloQ blue-side advantage not so much an issue as a curiosity. However, if your goal is to play a game where each team is given equal conditions to win, whether you are randomly placed on Blue or Purple, then it's of interest to be aware of where that challenge isn't being met, and offer solutions.
Teamwork is awesome... As long as your team is doing all the work!
Shelke14
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada6655 Posts
June 01 2014 05:38 GMT
#1475
man.... dem servers
red_
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8474 Posts
June 01 2014 06:11 GMT
#1476
I'm pretty surprised at the % difference on One For All, but what the fuck else could it be that causes the imbalance? Shit is crazy dudes, camera OP as fuck, more OP than even most 'OP' champions. Rito plz.
How did the experience of working at Mr Burns' Nuclear Plant influence Homer's composition of the Iliad and Odyssey?
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
June 01 2014 06:12 GMT
#1477
On June 01 2014 15:11 red_ wrote:
I'm pretty surprised at the % difference on One For All, but what the fuck else could it be that causes the imbalance? Shit is crazy dudes, camera OP as fuck, more OP than even most 'OP' champions. Rito plz.


I think Riot can at least somewhat fix this issue by changing the camera center position (no need to change angle). Just move the camera position slightly when the camera is locked.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
June 01 2014 06:16 GMT
#1478
Riot's servers are blowing up. I can't even mine their data lol.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
June 01 2014 06:35 GMT
#1479
On June 01 2014 15:16 Sufficiency wrote:
Riot's servers are blowing up. I can't even mine their data lol.

Maybe their servers are blowing up because you're mining their data! D:<
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35120 Posts
June 01 2014 06:35 GMT
#1480
Honest question. Has anybody dealt with a worse ranking system than mmr/tiers?
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