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[Patch 4.7] Braum General Discussion - Page 79

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Updated TL LoL policy in regards to the use of "lomo"

In regards to theorycrafting and hyperbole, please have firsthand experience of the scenario before giving your input

Future of TL LoL, post Liquid`Dota standalone site
ParadeofMadness
Profile Joined February 2014
United Kingdom1027 Posts
May 18 2014 00:28 GMT
#1561
Problem with MF isnt laning, she strong in lane. It thats being an immobile adc means your gonna get raeped if there's a yasuo or jax on the enemy team.
See Noob, Flame Noob. Top Lane main. 120ping master race Aspire to be one man rape train : choo-choo- yamedie~ mothafucka
SagaZ
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
France3460 Posts
May 18 2014 00:38 GMT
#1562
problem with MF is the fucking wind wall
Be nice, buy wards and don't feed double buff.
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
May 18 2014 00:43 GMT
#1563
I really feel like, if Yasuo Windwall's an MF ult he should mimic her ult laugh
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
May 18 2014 00:46 GMT
#1564
Braum's stupid shield thingy too.
liftlift > tsm
Prog
Profile Joined December 2009
United Kingdom1470 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-18 00:53:20
May 18 2014 00:53 GMT
#1565
Aren't those problems that other immobile adcs have as well and/or that can be dealt with good picks/bans reasonably well? It does not seem far fetched to me that an oppponent team picks something like Lulu mid and Shyvana top early while Jax and Braum are banned, before one has to choose the adc.
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
May 18 2014 00:54 GMT
#1566
And a buffed shyvana wouldnt be a problem wat?
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
May 18 2014 00:56 GMT
#1567
MF is amazing right now, E+R in a teamfight placed well can really swing a fight in ways that other ADCs can't and now with the standard lane matchups being Xv0 for a tower or two she doesn't have to deal with a lot of her previous weaknesses in lane at higher levels and the games basically start off when she's hitting the first spike in her power curve.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Prog
Profile Joined December 2009
United Kingdom1470 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-18 01:00:01
May 18 2014 00:58 GMT
#1568
You can peel her relatively well I'd say. If you feel comfortable to pick Draven, Jinx, or Twitch (or maybe even Kog'Maw) into a Shyvana I see no problem with MF. And those have been played against Shyvana all the time (edit: except for Kog).
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
May 18 2014 01:01 GMT
#1569
On May 18 2014 08:17 JazzVortical wrote:
I want to talk about league again (LS actions worse than Hitler? Come on people):

I wish Sorc boots were removed from the game, and I play mostly mages. I don't like that they give you direct combat power apart from move speed. I like that other boot options give more utility e.g. Tabis for the Right clickers, Treads for heavy CC, Swifties for the slows and extra move speed, Ionians for CDR and the straight roaming potential of mobis.

I want to try out other boot combinations (for example Swifties + Alacrity + Rylai's Vel'Koz for ultimate kite potential), but I feel like I'm missing out on a much needed damage boost.

Anyone regularly avoid Sorc boots?


Ninja tabi, merc treads and berserker's all give direct combat power as well. Merc treads also give utility, but defensive stats and attack speed definitely count as combat stats.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
Tula
Profile Joined December 2010
Austria1544 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-18 01:02:25
May 18 2014 01:01 GMT
#1570
On May 18 2014 09:53 Prog wrote:
Aren't those problems that other immobile adcs have as well and/or that can be dealt with good picks/bans reasonably well? It does not seem far fetched to me that an oppponent team picks something like Lulu mid and Shyvana top early while Jax and Braum are banned, before one has to choose the adc.


The thing is MF is very reliant on her Ult for teamfight impact, so any champion that can cancel it instantly makes her much weaker. Shyvana, Jax, Renekton are all bad toplaners to fight as MF (renekton might be fine if you position carefully), Leblanc, Fizz and Yasuo (fuck windwall...) the same for midlane. Leona and braum as bot supports are very hard to deal with (or make your impact minimal). So we have at least 8 common picks who make MFs life miserable. Compare that to a twitch or lucian who can deal with a few of those (or at the very least don't get instantly cancelled in teamfights) and its obvious why MF is a "weaker" pick.

Obviously she can be played (not sure if Samsung won with her, but the fact that they took her in blindpick says it all) but it requires coordination and teamfighting precision that you really can't expect in soloq.

edit: regarding the boot discussion, comparing zerkers to sorcs really isn't fair Yes Zerkers are nice but frankly their impact is far less than the mpen from sorcs.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-18 01:04:00
May 18 2014 01:01 GMT
#1571
On May 18 2014 09:24 chalice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2014 08:42 Complete wrote:
sooo getting back in to LoL. I'm reading the patch notes and I see MF got a bit of a change.

Are people maxing RQEW now? I used to max W over Q but it doesn't seem worth it now since only the aspd scales, and it costs more mana... but E isn't all that impressive either :p

i don't really see the benefits of W before E, but the ozone adc skilled RQWE in the ogn semifinals.


the last time MF saw fotm status people leveled W second because the attack speed buff allowed her to stack raw ad items before buying any attack speed, thus getting optimal damage on early game ults, not sure if this is still the way to play her post rework but, the way W+R stack now it would seem likely that going raw ad would still be good.

@above post

she's traditionally been extremely strong vs. Melee supports because of the way her passive and double up work, again I don't know if that is still true
Carrilord has arrived.
Tula
Profile Joined December 2010
Austria1544 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-18 01:07:10
May 18 2014 01:04 GMT
#1572
On May 18 2014 10:01 Slusher wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2014 09:24 chalice wrote:
On May 18 2014 08:42 Complete wrote:
sooo getting back in to LoL. I'm reading the patch notes and I see MF got a bit of a change.

Are people maxing RQEW now? I used to max W over Q but it doesn't seem worth it now since only the aspd scales, and it costs more mana... but E isn't all that impressive either :p

i don't really see the benefits of W before E, but the ozone adc skilled RQWE in the ogn semifinals.


the last time MF saw fotm status people leveled W second because the attack speed buff allowed her to stack raw ad items before buying any attack speed, thus getting optimal damage on early game ults, not sure if this is still the way to play her post rework but, the way W+R stack now it would seem likely that going raw ad would still be good.



The reason you leveled W was that the passive part increased per level. Nowadays the passive is an Ad ratio which doesn't change. Yes you can level it for the steroid, but it's a fairly minimal increase (10% per level I believe?). In short fights MFs power is based on the auto Q auto timing, not on her attack speed. E becomes a fairly strong slow and deals decent damage if you level it.

edit: yeah she can abuse meele supports (basically Leona, no other meele support is played currently. No idea how braum will be once his numbers get tuned), but a level 6 leona can and should dive her very successfully. I've played a lot of MF during early season 3, and played about 20 games with her since the rework, I still like her a lot, but in many teamfights I'm stuck basically at the far end of nowhere just so i can ult 2-3 people safely without getting interrupted.
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
May 18 2014 01:06 GMT
#1573
The most common skill order on MF is R>Q>W>E. Looks like Space has gone W before Q though, and RobertxLee has gone E before W.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
Prog
Profile Joined December 2009
United Kingdom1470 Posts
May 18 2014 01:15 GMT
#1574
On May 18 2014 10:01 Tula wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2014 09:53 Prog wrote:
Aren't those problems that other immobile adcs have as well and/or that can be dealt with good picks/bans reasonably well? It does not seem far fetched to me that an oppponent team picks something like Lulu mid and Shyvana top early while Jax and Braum are banned, before one has to choose the adc.


The thing is MF is very reliant on her Ult for teamfight impact, so any champion that can cancel it instantly makes her much weaker. Shyvana, Jax, Renekton are all bad toplaners to fight as MF (renekton might be fine if you position carefully), Leblanc, Fizz and Yasuo (fuck windwall...) the same for midlane. Leona and braum as bot supports are very hard to deal with (or make your impact minimal). So we have at least 8 common picks who make MFs life miserable. Compare that to a twitch or lucian who can deal with a few of those (or at the very least don't get instantly cancelled in teamfights) and its obvious why MF is a "weaker" pick.

Obviously she can be played (not sure if Samsung won with her, but the fact that they took her in blindpick says it all) but it requires coordination and teamfighting precision that you really can't expect in soloq.

edit: regarding the boot discussion, comparing zerkers to sorcs really isn't fair Yes Zerkers are nice but frankly their impact is far less than the mpen from sorcs.


And still even there MF has a higher winratio than any other adc! I'm not sure what that means for your analysis. Either MF should be even stronger in organized play, or something is wrong with your account.


But my whole initial point was: MF is currently strong and nafta's remark of "a better skill order would be to not pick MF" is wrong. My warrant is a combination of soloq winratio, Samsung taking her in blindpick (and some other games), and my ingame experience. My ingame experience does not count for too much and soloq winratio alone did not convince nafta (because of the Janna case rebuttal), but I do think the combination of those three reasons provide a solid backing for my claim.


dae
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada1600 Posts
May 18 2014 01:22 GMT
#1575
On May 18 2014 10:15 Prog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2014 10:01 Tula wrote:
On May 18 2014 09:53 Prog wrote:
Aren't those problems that other immobile adcs have as well and/or that can be dealt with good picks/bans reasonably well? It does not seem far fetched to me that an oppponent team picks something like Lulu mid and Shyvana top early while Jax and Braum are banned, before one has to choose the adc.


The thing is MF is very reliant on her Ult for teamfight impact, so any champion that can cancel it instantly makes her much weaker. Shyvana, Jax, Renekton are all bad toplaners to fight as MF (renekton might be fine if you position carefully), Leblanc, Fizz and Yasuo (fuck windwall...) the same for midlane. Leona and braum as bot supports are very hard to deal with (or make your impact minimal). So we have at least 8 common picks who make MFs life miserable. Compare that to a twitch or lucian who can deal with a few of those (or at the very least don't get instantly cancelled in teamfights) and its obvious why MF is a "weaker" pick.

Obviously she can be played (not sure if Samsung won with her, but the fact that they took her in blindpick says it all) but it requires coordination and teamfighting precision that you really can't expect in soloq.

edit: regarding the boot discussion, comparing zerkers to sorcs really isn't fair Yes Zerkers are nice but frankly their impact is far less than the mpen from sorcs.


And still even there MF has a higher winratio than any other adc! I'm not sure what that means for your analysis. Either MF should be even stronger in organized play, or something is wrong with your account.


But my whole initial point was: MF is currently strong and nafta's remark of "a better skill order would be to not pick MF" is wrong. My warrant is a combination of soloq winratio, Samsung taking her in blindpick (and some other games), and my ingame experience. My ingame experience does not count for too much and soloq winratio alone did not convince nafta (because of the Janna case rebuttal), but I do think the combination of those three reasons provide a solid backing for my claim.




I got like a 25 game win streak with MF a while ago that carried me to 99 lp D1. E max MF caught so many people by surprise when they got slowed then ulted from like 80% health to 0 at lvl 6.

She fell out of favor when everyone was picking assasains, and everyone needed mobility or else they were garbage. When the other team has like 4 people that just jump on you, and you can't do anything but stand and fight, its pretty hard to play MF.

Now that the meta has shifted back a bit towards allowing non mobile champions to be played, she is really good. Both her lack of mobility, and that her ult/e get way better vs lower mobility champions help this.

This is also why Anivia is making a comeback somewhat in soloQ, she is also better the less mobile people are.
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
May 18 2014 01:23 GMT
#1576
Well they also picked her vs nami/yasuo and was useless and fed.So it leads me to believe maybe they overrate her.In my experience she is just average in lane and doesn't really do anything later.Hope I am not proven wrong because she is incredibly boring to watch but if she is truly strong she should start seeing more picks.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
May 18 2014 01:25 GMT
#1577
Seeing the "popular" Kayle AP blues+red and 0 MPen with zerkers instead of sorcs boggles my mind. She has 6% MPen from masteries and she still dishes out such absurd amounts of damage even to frontliners. x_o

Feels weird considering pretty much everything but her E's already been nerfed big time, and she's still going strong.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
May 18 2014 01:26 GMT
#1578
MF is around the powerlevel non-mobile adc's should be at.
liftlift > tsm
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
May 18 2014 01:29 GMT
#1579
On May 18 2014 10:25 Alaric wrote:
Seeing the "popular" Kayle AP blues+red and 0 MPen with zerkers instead of sorcs boggles my mind. She has 6% MPen from masteries and she still dishes out such absurd amounts of damage even to frontliners. x_o

Feels weird considering pretty much everything but her E's already been nerfed big time, and she's still going strong.


kayle feels so hopeless to play against, you have to burst her down, survive while her ult is up (and she's healing herself while she ults) and then pray you don't get healbaited or a fucking soraka ult
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-18 01:33:00
May 18 2014 01:32 GMT
#1580
Oh, no, I was talking in teamfights. There's stuff beating her in lane I assume, but if she gets some items the damage is... wat.

(Well all in all I'd still feel miserable since they wouldn't pick Kayle after I get Irelia, so it'd be Jax or Mundo as my top and I'd get sad, so can't talk about laning.)
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
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