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On May 16 2014 08:17 Alaric wrote:That's why I said "aside from the fact that playing 4v5s (when it's a dc) or 2-3v5s (depending on the number too busy flaming to play) isn't exactly fun and doesn't give me too much room to improve".  I don't necessarily mind the flaming itself (apart from how it makes me scroll more to find my timers; I just ask people to play if they sound recoverable and shrug them off otherwise), but people busy flaming don't play nor react to others/their calls. ... Which strays from my initial point which was that if the tier/division system requires you to willingly ignore the way it works, then it's probably not fulfilling its role too well (because otherwise you're exposed to anecdotal games with a much heavier weight for arbitrary reasons).
I doubt there are people who think its a good system.There is no difference compared to the old elo system.You just get some random league icon that is completely irrelevant to anything.
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Considering I was jungling all of these games, I'd argue it significantly altered the experience if I was to lane instead.
As for the calls, sure you could make a point that the guy asking for ganks then, when I come, standing still under his tower because the opposite lane said something and he's busy typing a flaming retort, is similar to somebody lacking map awareness and not following up on a gank, but I'd still consider it a stretch to call that "good practice for suboptimal situations".
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On May 16 2014 05:43 Slayer91 wrote:
except 800 to goldish elo is the sort of level you expect a regular player to get to. you'd probably have figured out shit on your own if you didnt have oddone to watch. Thinking and trying to understand things for yourself is definitely the best way. Even if a pro player is pointing out things he does that gives you the illusion you know what you're doing when what they explain is the top level of things and like inception you need to go deeper
I think watching high elo streamers is definitely useful, even if just for the sake of seeing things from a different perspective. As far as builds and stuff go though, guides will probably be better.
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On May 16 2014 08:25 Alaric wrote:Considering I was jungling all of these games, I'd argue it significantly altered the experience if I was to lane instead. As for the calls, sure you could make a point that the guy asking for ganks then, when I come, standing still under his tower because the opposite lane said something and he's busy typing a flaming retort, is similar to somebody lacking map awareness and not following up on a gank, but I'd still consider it a stretch to call that "good practice for suboptimal situations".
lol jungling in 4v5 is fun becaue you clear your jungle and then go farm mid and then its like playing a super greedy mid lane.
i almost won a 4v5 once because i was so fed from double farming as udyr haha
if the guy wasnt reacting to your gank you can try pinging or waiting for him to react. this seems like pointless whining
On May 16 2014 08:27 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2014 08:11 Slayer91 wrote:
its not about measuring your dick its about fine tuning your performance with it alaric
if you only care about winning or losing you won't have fun except in the games you win, if you care only about improving you enjoy every game
flaming filled games are just more entertaining versions. if you drop the ego and have nothing to prove you won't feel defensive so you can just enjoy it then again, most people want to improve so they can win more often. who plays to improve for the sake of improving? especially when the only tangible measure of your improvement atm is your rank (which directly relates to winning). I don't care too much about losing, but for a different reason. When I'm on a bad streak or whatever I know that it's statistics and I'm bound to have a good winning streak sooner or later. It always happens. Flamers are just frustrating because the game becomes less about outplaying but more about who tilts harder.
who the fuck plays just to win more? winning is meaningless except as a proof of skill. If you want to win why not tank your elo to bronze 27? why not go to a a camp of retarded kids teach them to play LoL and then dominate them
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On May 16 2014 08:36 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2014 08:25 Alaric wrote:Considering I was jungling all of these games, I'd argue it significantly altered the experience if I was to lane instead. As for the calls, sure you could make a point that the guy asking for ganks then, when I come, standing still under his tower because the opposite lane said something and he's busy typing a flaming retort, is similar to somebody lacking map awareness and not following up on a gank, but I'd still consider it a stretch to call that "good practice for suboptimal situations". lol jungling in 4v5 is fun becaue you clear your jungle and then go farm mid and then its like playing a super greedy mid lane. i almost won a 4v5 once because i was so fed from double farming as udyr haha if the guy wasnt reacting to your gank you can try pinging or waiting for him to react. this seems like pointless whining Show nested quote +On May 16 2014 08:27 krndandaman wrote:On May 16 2014 08:11 Slayer91 wrote:
its not about measuring your dick its about fine tuning your performance with it alaric
if you only care about winning or losing you won't have fun except in the games you win, if you care only about improving you enjoy every game
flaming filled games are just more entertaining versions. if you drop the ego and have nothing to prove you won't feel defensive so you can just enjoy it then again, most people want to improve so they can win more often. who plays to improve for the sake of improving? especially when the only tangible measure of your improvement atm is your rank (which directly relates to winning). I don't care too much about losing, but for a different reason. When I'm on a bad streak or whatever I know that it's statistics and I'm bound to have a good winning streak sooner or later. It always happens. Flamers are just frustrating because the game becomes less about outplaying but more about who tilts harder. who the fuck plays just to win more? winning is meaningless except as a proof of skill. If you want to win why not tank your elo to bronze 27? why not go to a a camp of retarded kids teach them to play LoL and then dominate them
wait that isnt what league is?
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On May 16 2014 04:55 Slayer91 wrote:
TOO kind of sucked always though. He played solid and ganked lanes but rarely carried and got high rankings in solo queue. He often played medicore and blamed teammates etc
Blaming teammates on stream is the best way to relate to the viewers though. Because thats what we would do if we were there.
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On May 16 2014 08:37 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2014 08:36 Slayer91 wrote:On May 16 2014 08:25 Alaric wrote:Considering I was jungling all of these games, I'd argue it significantly altered the experience if I was to lane instead. As for the calls, sure you could make a point that the guy asking for ganks then, when I come, standing still under his tower because the opposite lane said something and he's busy typing a flaming retort, is similar to somebody lacking map awareness and not following up on a gank, but I'd still consider it a stretch to call that "good practice for suboptimal situations". lol jungling in 4v5 is fun becaue you clear your jungle and then go farm mid and then its like playing a super greedy mid lane. i almost won a 4v5 once because i was so fed from double farming as udyr haha if the guy wasnt reacting to your gank you can try pinging or waiting for him to react. this seems like pointless whining On May 16 2014 08:27 krndandaman wrote:On May 16 2014 08:11 Slayer91 wrote:
its not about measuring your dick its about fine tuning your performance with it alaric
if you only care about winning or losing you won't have fun except in the games you win, if you care only about improving you enjoy every game
flaming filled games are just more entertaining versions. if you drop the ego and have nothing to prove you won't feel defensive so you can just enjoy it then again, most people want to improve so they can win more often. who plays to improve for the sake of improving? especially when the only tangible measure of your improvement atm is your rank (which directly relates to winning). I don't care too much about losing, but for a different reason. When I'm on a bad streak or whatever I know that it's statistics and I'm bound to have a good winning streak sooner or later. It always happens. Flamers are just frustrating because the game becomes less about outplaying but more about who tilts harder. who the fuck plays just to win more? winning is meaningless except as a proof of skill. If you want to win why not tank your elo to bronze 27? why not go to a a camp of retarded kids teach them to play LoL and then dominate them wait that isnt what league is?
was going to either say retarded babies or just say retarded kids and then make an america joke but didnt want to push my luck
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except suitable competition is defined by your skill level.
don't you see the obvious contradiction? Your win rate increases your mmr which increases competition level anyway so you'll always stay around 50%ish winrate if you play a lot.
tanknig you elo to bronze 27, im not sure if you can tank mmr by dodging but you can at least offer to boost some bronzies account.
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On May 16 2014 08:45 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2014 08:41 Slayer91 wrote:
except suitable competition is defined by your skill level.
don't you see the obvious contradiction? Your win rate increases your mmr which increases competition level anyway so you'll always stay around 50%ish winrate if you play a lot.
tanknig you elo to bronze 27, im not sure if you can tank mmr by dodging but you can at least offer to boost some bronzies account. I don't see the contradiction at all. Enjoying winning doesn't mean I think winning half the time is bad. I was just responding to you saying you shouldn't get annoyed losing games with trolls/flamers because you should play to improve. I'm responding with yes it's natural to get annoyed since you're aiming to win as a result of your improvement. Trolls and flamers change the game from a test of skill to a test of whoever tilts harder.
"Winning against suitable competition"
If you win 70% of the time, competition is clearly not suitable. You way outskill your opponents and you mmr will raise quickly
therefore the more you win the less suitable your competition is
so even if theoretically you could win more without increasing your mmr, games would become less and less interesting as you got better because you'd win easily too much.
Aiming to win as a result of your improvement? thats not how it works, you don't assume improvement, its something you chase after constantly. By doing so you will win a lot of games and gain the same satisfaction but not have any of the rage for losing.
"trolls and flamers change the game from a test of skill to whoever tilts harder" is complete horseshit.
1: They are equally spread out on each team statiscally
2: Flamers/trolls tend to be people like you who start to get mad because the game isn't going well and they think they are going to lose and start to not care/blame other people
3: If there were no flamers and trolls and it was an even game you'd just say "oh its a test of which team throws hardest" since eventually one team will lose a key fight some idiot will blame it on somebody and then that guy is the guy who threw
4: I can carry the shit out of a shitty team full of flamers and trolls until they stop flaming and trolling because its impossible to lose a game where you're too far ahead to make mistakes, as long my opponents are equally as shitty as my team.
What your actual situation is is that you aren't any better than your competition, on a good day you are but on a bad day ou aren't. I know this because the system balances it that way. If you lose you blame the trolls and flamers and if you win its the results of your improvement. This sort if belief is exactly the same thing that spawned elo hell but that has been debunked enough that people can't keep believing it.
Your belief system is exactly the same as someone who believes poker is just a game of luck and whoever wins is just whoever got the cards they needed
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-You got better at basketball grats. Playing to win is standard obviously but if thats all you care about then you don't have the mindset to keep improving and dominate past the point you can win all the time. In this system its just two people so if improving enough to beat your friend 70% of the time is enough for you then its fine, because all you care about is you improved more than him.
-Winning is a great check on how well you played but its far from the only one. You will get carried tons of games by your teammates or opposite teams "trolls/flamers" without you realizing it. Being able to analyze your own play regardless of the actions of your teammates is an important tool because you need to see your mistakes and not everyone elses. If you made a bad reaction by following a teammate you can blame him for baiting, but you shouldn't have followed.
There's no reason to associate your perception not being able to judge your own skill as having anything to do with so called toxic players.
1. How is the effect of "tilting" any different from someone playing worse and thus reducing the overall skill of his team not being decided by skill. EVeryone has good and bad days so who cares, there's gonna be one guy on tilt and one guy playing well whatever.
2. I said people like you, as in the vast majority that are desperating trying to get 3 more wins to reach their promotion series and start lashing out when they feel powerless because they start losing the game. If their teammates weren't dying they would be winning so its their fault clearly. That doesn't mean you troll in games it just means their actions come from the same mindset and frustration. If you want ad homenim; learn to read LOL
3: Throwing is a part of skill but tilting isn't? What if someone throws because he's on tilt. What if someone throws because he's distracted because someone else is on tilt. The key is that if someone "throws" (defined by his teammates, regardless of the circumstances leading up to it) is that the 4 other players have someone to blame for their loss, just the same as if the same guy was "trolling" or "raging".
4. I'm a fucking terrible player which is why i find it laughable you think that games aren't decided by skill, my point was that I can demonstrably prove that the game is decided by skill but you just completely ignore it despite probably being the most important part of the argument.
Lots of things affect the game in unpredictable ways. The difference is, when you win the game because your team carried you because they fed on someone who was raging on the other team, it might not be that noticeable. Maybe you started winning your lane after your jungler was freed up to camp top after their support played badly and bot got ahead. Maybe you joined up with your team. You might win that game and then say it was down to skill. Just as well those things could have happened in exactly the same way except their bot lane "outplayed" instead of the other bot "raging". Does that make it harder to judge your improvement? It shouldn't, because the sequence of events for you was exactly the same, all that matters is how you played given the circumstances. Someone on your team playing badly because he's not used to the champion is no different from someone on your team playing badly because he's mad. Why does it affect you?
Also that last point wasn't ad hominem or an assumption. Saying that judging your skill in that particular game was impossible because it was decided in a luck based factor is exactly the same as a poker player saying he couldnt judge how good his decision was because he had bad luck on the river.
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On May 16 2014 08:11 Slayer91 wrote:
its not about measuring your dick its about fine tuning your performance with it alaric
On May 16 2014 08:36 Slayer91 wrote:
who the fuck plays just to win more? winning is meaningless except as a proof of skill. If you want to win why not tank your elo to bronze 27?
Enjoy TL+. I had a laugh.
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Can you explain what your point is then? One that I haven't already addressed? From my point of view I've addressed everything you said more or less directly.
What I can see: You can't judge your skill properly because of trolls/flamers so you're annoyed at them
why are you annoyed at them? that's your own problem
You want to improve to win more despite the fact that it wont lead you to winning more
As for "being frustrated is natural" becoming a cock (meant to type coke but i'll take it LOL double pun) addict is also natural but it doesn't mean its a good idea. If it's slight frustration from making mistakes to drive you to eliminate them sure but you were getting frustrated at other people who you can't control which is not much better than that greek dude who ordered the sea whipped.
A lot of people get seriously angry when playing ranked and it's not going well, and it's not productive becuase the anger isn't self directed at all.
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Everyone has to get through their share of trolls, ragers and flamers to get where they are.
You can insist you're better than your rank, but it is very rarely true. The more you play, the even less likely it's true because of the law of averages.
It's the same concept as that Brood War pro who Boxer/oov/ whatever said was a monster in the team house, but is like 1-9 in pro league because of nerves. It's not their game keeping them down, it's other shit. In a perfect world that other shit wouldn't matter, but unfortunately it does.
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EPT
