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[Patch 4.7] Braum General Discussion - Page 20

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Updated TL LoL policy in regards to the use of "lomo"

In regards to theorycrafting and hyperbole, please have firsthand experience of the scenario before giving your input

Future of TL LoL, post Liquid`Dota standalone site
AlterKot
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Poland7525 Posts
May 11 2014 15:56 GMT
#381
Who's better than him? Youngbuck? Xasus? Mimer? EU doesn't exactly have the best toplaners either.
Americans don't like to use unblockables, it is considered not honest. You press a button at the wrong time and hit the other person, you are random, not a top player. You DP Sim's far fierce, it is random and not honest.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-11 16:01:50
May 11 2014 16:00 GMT
#382
On May 12 2014 00:56 AlterKot wrote:
Who's better than him? Youngbuck? Xasus? Mimer? EU doesn't exactly have the best toplaners either.

zorozero.

also, doesn't matter from soaz. no point in making that deceleration if you're getting shit stomped by 6-8th ranked koreans.
liftlift > tsm
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
May 11 2014 16:02 GMT
#383
On May 12 2014 00:56 AlterKot wrote:
Who's better than him? Youngbuck? Xasus? Mimer? EU doesn't exactly have the best toplaners either.


i would take xasus over soaz
AlterKot
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Poland7525 Posts
May 11 2014 16:02 GMT
#384
Zoro isn't on the scene right now. And this tweet is relevant because it shows how bad EU toplaners are.
Americans don't like to use unblockables, it is considered not honest. You press a button at the wrong time and hit the other person, you are random, not a top player. You DP Sim's far fierce, it is random and not honest.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
May 11 2014 16:05 GMT
#385
On May 12 2014 01:02 AlterKot wrote:
Zoro isn't on the scene right now. And this tweet is relevant because it shows how bad EU toplaners are.

It shows how bad Western laners are. Not just EU toplane.
liftlift > tsm
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
May 11 2014 16:22 GMT
#386
Soaz and wickd really are the best tops in EU, that depresses me.
I won't say xaxus, too many individual derp plays and is only really an above average filler top laner, freddy maybe but individually he's mediocre it's just how well he fits in SK's gameplans and rotations. Zoro probably but retired so not worth discussing.
Glorious SEA doto
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
May 11 2014 16:27 GMT
#387
Freddy always surprises me so much in lcs.In soloq almost every time I have seen him he just goes 0/6 or something and ragequits.
Lylat
Profile Joined August 2009
France8575 Posts
May 11 2014 17:17 GMT
#388
Kevin used to be really solid back in SK but during this split he sucked.. :/
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
May 11 2014 17:47 GMT
#389
On May 11 2014 20:31 kongoline wrote:
how is xin hard lol, hes one of the most faceroll champions in game

champions like xin require a base level of auto cancelling mechanics that the majority of league players don't have. like everyone in silver and below could probably move up an entire league tier just by taking a champ with an auto-reset type skill and practicing their mechanics against the golem camp for 15-20 minutes a week.
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
May 11 2014 17:50 GMT
#390
u can do just fine without auto cancelling and his winrate in bronze-silver levels reflects that
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
May 11 2014 17:56 GMT
#391
On May 11 2014 18:08 GolemMadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2014 17:50 Pantagruel wrote:
I dunno, I usually destroy lane so hard that I have a decent sized budget but if I don't do well then I can envision j4 falling off badly in the mid game. Thats a moot point however because even with eclipse the same can be said for Leona. In lane though j4 seems more tanky then Leona and also has a lot more mobility to escape. On top of that he has great poke with his Q.

As for Xin, he has a delayed knock up and a slow and cannot escape so I don't think he'd work as well. It would basically be a weaker Leona without the advantages of j4.


It's not the same with Leona at all. She has so much CC and innate tankyness with her W that she's always useful. J4 has his W for a bit of tankyness, but unless you're maxing it first, it has a massive cooldown and doesn't give a large shield. His EQ combo is also not very reliable, and if you miss it in a team fight, you're pretty much fucked. Leona has a stun that lasts half a second longer than J4's knock up that's on cooldown 6 seconds shorter than J4's flag and isn't a skill shot.


Here is the difference between j4 and Leona.

Morgana counters Leona. J4 counters Morgana.

J4 has so much innate damage that is all physical that his inability to stun the enemy adc/support doesn't matter. He is immune to roots as he can e,q out of them so more has no way to stop his engages or easily poke/harass him down (he can respond by going in and proving his passive) and spell shields do not prevent getting locked into cataclysm.

His downside is being weak to alistar and Janna. But who plays alistar and Janna anymore?
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
May 11 2014 18:00 GMT
#392
On May 12 2014 02:56 Goumindong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2014 18:08 GolemMadness wrote:
On May 11 2014 17:50 Pantagruel wrote:
I dunno, I usually destroy lane so hard that I have a decent sized budget but if I don't do well then I can envision j4 falling off badly in the mid game. Thats a moot point however because even with eclipse the same can be said for Leona. In lane though j4 seems more tanky then Leona and also has a lot more mobility to escape. On top of that he has great poke with his Q.

As for Xin, he has a delayed knock up and a slow and cannot escape so I don't think he'd work as well. It would basically be a weaker Leona without the advantages of j4.


It's not the same with Leona at all. She has so much CC and innate tankyness with her W that she's always useful. J4 has his W for a bit of tankyness, but unless you're maxing it first, it has a massive cooldown and doesn't give a large shield. His EQ combo is also not very reliable, and if you miss it in a team fight, you're pretty much fucked. Leona has a stun that lasts half a second longer than J4's knock up that's on cooldown 6 seconds shorter than J4's flag and isn't a skill shot.


Here is the difference between j4 and Leona.

Morgana counters Leona. J4 counters Morgana.

J4 has so much innate damage that is all physical that his inability to stun the enemy adc/support doesn't matter. He is immune to roots as he can e,q out of them so more has no way to stop his engages or easily poke/harass him down (he can respond by going in and proving his passive) and spell shields do not prevent getting locked into cataclysm.

His downside is being weak to alistar and Janna. But who plays alistar and Janna anymore?

And j4 isn't weak vs thresh?Ok m8.Not to mention that any of graves/lucian/vayne/ez(draven if good) can completely ignore you in lane phase and make the other ad cry.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
May 11 2014 18:01 GMT
#393
On May 12 2014 02:47 chalice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2014 20:31 kongoline wrote:
how is xin hard lol, hes one of the most faceroll champions in game

champions like xin require a base level of auto cancelling mechanics that the majority of league players don't have. like everyone in silver and below could probably move up an entire league tier just by taking a champ with an auto-reset type skill and practicing their mechanics against the golem camp for 15-20 minutes a week.


I seriously doubt it.

Playing against Silver people back then on my smurf after I descended into bronze made me realize it's not just the mechanics. There are multiple problems with most silver players (I am low plat in case that matters), but I actually find their decision making to be the most problematic.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-11 18:24:05
May 11 2014 18:04 GMT
#394
I tried jungling Rammus. I cried. He's such a pile of shit now, abysmal clear speed even with help, and he's pretty much useless now that you've got jumps everywhere and his Taunt has been reduced to... nothing. 2.25s is laughable when it's short-ranged, single-target, and the only real cc he has.
He can't really hope to gank effectively since his clear is so slow that he's going to be underleveled and underfarmed, and he's never been a champion able to win 2v2s.

I'm sad now.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
nyxnyxnyx
Profile Joined April 2010
Indonesia2978 Posts
May 11 2014 18:10 GMT
#395
haven't played league for 3 months, came back to play an aram tournament with some buddies and beat 2 different full-challenger teams to take first place. feelsgoodman
cool beans
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
May 11 2014 18:10 GMT
#396
as a laner i always thought rammus ganks are retarded and im happy hes not "viable", if he was im pretty sure he would be perma banned like before,
is euw down for anyone else? i cant login get msg server is busy Oo
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
May 11 2014 18:18 GMT
#397
On May 12 2014 03:01 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2014 02:47 chalice wrote:
On May 11 2014 20:31 kongoline wrote:
how is xin hard lol, hes one of the most faceroll champions in game

champions like xin require a base level of auto cancelling mechanics that the majority of league players don't have. like everyone in silver and below could probably move up an entire league tier just by taking a champ with an auto-reset type skill and practicing their mechanics against the golem camp for 15-20 minutes a week.


I seriously doubt it.

Playing against Silver people back then on my smurf after I descended into bronze made me realize it's not just the mechanics. There are multiple problems with most silver players (I am low plat in case that matters), but I actually find their decision making to be the most problematic.

oh there's no doubt that silver decision making is atrocious, most players could just as easily move up a few divisions just by never ignoring another ping telling them to retreat.

still i think that you underestimate the impact of the millions of auto-attacks that are missed every day, so much free damage is being left on the table and unlike decision making, a small amount of focused practice can actually show noticeable improvement in auto-attack mechanics after a relatively short period of time.
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
May 11 2014 18:18 GMT
#398
On May 12 2014 03:00 nafta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2014 02:56 Goumindong wrote:
On May 11 2014 18:08 GolemMadness wrote:
On May 11 2014 17:50 Pantagruel wrote:
I dunno, I usually destroy lane so hard that I have a decent sized budget but if I don't do well then I can envision j4 falling off badly in the mid game. Thats a moot point however because even with eclipse the same can be said for Leona. In lane though j4 seems more tanky then Leona and also has a lot more mobility to escape. On top of that he has great poke with his Q.

As for Xin, he has a delayed knock up and a slow and cannot escape so I don't think he'd work as well. It would basically be a weaker Leona without the advantages of j4.


It's not the same with Leona at all. She has so much CC and innate tankyness with her W that she's always useful. J4 has his W for a bit of tankyness, but unless you're maxing it first, it has a massive cooldown and doesn't give a large shield. His EQ combo is also not very reliable, and if you miss it in a team fight, you're pretty much fucked. Leona has a stun that lasts half a second longer than J4's knock up that's on cooldown 6 seconds shorter than J4's flag and isn't a skill shot.


Here is the difference between j4 and Leona.

Morgana counters Leona. J4 counters Morgana.

J4 has so much innate damage that is all physical that his inability to stun the enemy adc/support doesn't matter. He is immune to roots as he can e,q out of them so more has no way to stop his engages or easily poke/harass him down (he can respond by going in and proving his passive) and spell shields do not prevent getting locked into cataclysm.

His downside is being weak to alistar and Janna. But who plays alistar and Janna anymore?

And j4 isn't weak vs thresh?Ok m8.Not to mention that any of graves/lucian/vayne/ez(draven if good) can completely ignore you in lane phase and make the other ad cry.


That is true but you can ban thresh or only pick j4 as a counter.
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-11 18:21:19
May 11 2014 18:19 GMT
#399
On May 12 2014 03:18 Goumindong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2014 03:00 nafta wrote:
On May 12 2014 02:56 Goumindong wrote:
On May 11 2014 18:08 GolemMadness wrote:
On May 11 2014 17:50 Pantagruel wrote:
I dunno, I usually destroy lane so hard that I have a decent sized budget but if I don't do well then I can envision j4 falling off badly in the mid game. Thats a moot point however because even with eclipse the same can be said for Leona. In lane though j4 seems more tanky then Leona and also has a lot more mobility to escape. On top of that he has great poke with his Q.

As for Xin, he has a delayed knock up and a slow and cannot escape so I don't think he'd work as well. It would basically be a weaker Leona without the advantages of j4.


It's not the same with Leona at all. She has so much CC and innate tankyness with her W that she's always useful. J4 has his W for a bit of tankyness, but unless you're maxing it first, it has a massive cooldown and doesn't give a large shield. His EQ combo is also not very reliable, and if you miss it in a team fight, you're pretty much fucked. Leona has a stun that lasts half a second longer than J4's knock up that's on cooldown 6 seconds shorter than J4's flag and isn't a skill shot.


Here is the difference between j4 and Leona.

Morgana counters Leona. J4 counters Morgana.

J4 has so much innate damage that is all physical that his inability to stun the enemy adc/support doesn't matter. He is immune to roots as he can e,q out of them so more has no way to stop his engages or easily poke/harass him down (he can respond by going in and proving his passive) and spell shields do not prevent getting locked into cataclysm.

His downside is being weak to alistar and Janna. But who plays alistar and Janna anymore?

And j4 isn't weak vs thresh?Ok m8.Not to mention that any of graves/lucian/vayne/ez(draven if good) can completely ignore you in lane phase and make the other ad cry.


That is true but you can ban thresh or only pick j4 as a counter.

I just mentioned thresh because you said janna/alistar are biggest counters.He isn't the only one that would beat j4 easily lol.Morgana and sona are pretty much only 2 supports that could have issues with j4.Everyone else would dumpster him and he gets outscaled by everyone anyway.
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
May 11 2014 18:26 GMT
#400
On May 12 2014 03:01 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2014 02:47 chalice wrote:
On May 11 2014 20:31 kongoline wrote:
how is xin hard lol, hes one of the most faceroll champions in game

champions like xin require a base level of auto cancelling mechanics that the majority of league players don't have. like everyone in silver and below could probably move up an entire league tier just by taking a champ with an auto-reset type skill and practicing their mechanics against the golem camp for 15-20 minutes a week.


I seriously doubt it.

Playing against Silver people back then on my smurf after I descended into bronze made me realize it's not just the mechanics. There are multiple problems with most silver players (I am low plat in case that matters), but I actually find their decision making to be the most problematic.


I agree. I play low plat/high gold ATM and find that it's mainly decision making (especially post lane decision making) that makes the difference. Second to that is attitude/playing on tilt and then mechanics. On the other hand my mechanics are bad so I may be biased. It's just that almost no amount of mechanics increase will let you win 1v5 but minor decision making changes will make those 4v4s into 5v4s.
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