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On May 12 2014 03:19 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 03:18 Goumindong wrote:On May 12 2014 03:00 nafta wrote:On May 12 2014 02:56 Goumindong wrote:On May 11 2014 18:08 GolemMadness wrote:On May 11 2014 17:50 Pantagruel wrote:
I dunno, I usually destroy lane so hard that I have a decent sized budget but if I don't do well then I can envision j4 falling off badly in the mid game. Thats a moot point however because even with eclipse the same can be said for Leona. In lane though j4 seems more tanky then Leona and also has a lot more mobility to escape. On top of that he has great poke with his Q.
As for Xin, he has a delayed knock up and a slow and cannot escape so I don't think he'd work as well. It would basically be a weaker Leona without the advantages of j4. It's not the same with Leona at all. She has so much CC and innate tankyness with her W that she's always useful. J4 has his W for a bit of tankyness, but unless you're maxing it first, it has a massive cooldown and doesn't give a large shield. His EQ combo is also not very reliable, and if you miss it in a team fight, you're pretty much fucked. Leona has a stun that lasts half a second longer than J4's knock up that's on cooldown 6 seconds shorter than J4's flag and isn't a skill shot. Here is the difference between j4 and Leona. Morgana counters Leona. J4 counters Morgana. J4 has so much innate damage that is all physical that his inability to stun the enemy adc/support doesn't matter. He is immune to roots as he can e,q out of them so more has no way to stop his engages or easily poke/harass him down (he can respond by going in and proving his passive) and spell shields do not prevent getting locked into cataclysm. His downside is being weak to alistar and Janna. But who plays alistar and Janna anymore? And j4 isn't weak vs thresh?Ok m8.Not to mention that any of graves/lucian/vayne/ez(draven if good) can completely ignore you in lane phase and make the other ad cry. That is true but you can ban thresh or only pick j4 as a counter. I just mentioned thresh because you said janna/alistar are biggest counters.He isn't the only one that would beat j4 easily lol.Morgana and sona are pretty much only 2 supports that could have issues with j4.Everyone else would dumpster him and he gets outscaled by everyone anyway.
J4 gets a %armor pen and a max health auto attack stack. Buy just having tanky items peeling for your adc he will do more to cut through most of the hyper tanks in the game than any other champion. If he gets cleaver it's even better. He scales fine into the late game.
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On May 12 2014 03:34 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 03:19 nafta wrote:On May 12 2014 03:18 Goumindong wrote:On May 12 2014 03:00 nafta wrote:On May 12 2014 02:56 Goumindong wrote:On May 11 2014 18:08 GolemMadness wrote:On May 11 2014 17:50 Pantagruel wrote:
I dunno, I usually destroy lane so hard that I have a decent sized budget but if I don't do well then I can envision j4 falling off badly in the mid game. Thats a moot point however because even with eclipse the same can be said for Leona. In lane though j4 seems more tanky then Leona and also has a lot more mobility to escape. On top of that he has great poke with his Q.
As for Xin, he has a delayed knock up and a slow and cannot escape so I don't think he'd work as well. It would basically be a weaker Leona without the advantages of j4. It's not the same with Leona at all. She has so much CC and innate tankyness with her W that she's always useful. J4 has his W for a bit of tankyness, but unless you're maxing it first, it has a massive cooldown and doesn't give a large shield. His EQ combo is also not very reliable, and if you miss it in a team fight, you're pretty much fucked. Leona has a stun that lasts half a second longer than J4's knock up that's on cooldown 6 seconds shorter than J4's flag and isn't a skill shot. Here is the difference between j4 and Leona. Morgana counters Leona. J4 counters Morgana. J4 has so much innate damage that is all physical that his inability to stun the enemy adc/support doesn't matter. He is immune to roots as he can e,q out of them so more has no way to stop his engages or easily poke/harass him down (he can respond by going in and proving his passive) and spell shields do not prevent getting locked into cataclysm. His downside is being weak to alistar and Janna. But who plays alistar and Janna anymore? And j4 isn't weak vs thresh?Ok m8.Not to mention that any of graves/lucian/vayne/ez(draven if good) can completely ignore you in lane phase and make the other ad cry. That is true but you can ban thresh or only pick j4 as a counter. I just mentioned thresh because you said janna/alistar are biggest counters.He isn't the only one that would beat j4 easily lol.Morgana and sona are pretty much only 2 supports that could have issues with j4.Everyone else would dumpster him and he gets outscaled by everyone anyway. J4 gets a %armor pen and a max health auto attack stack. Buy just having tanky items peeling for your adc he will do more to cut through most of the hyper tanks in the game than any other champion. If he gets cleaver it's even better. He scales fine into the late game.
Correction: J4 does %armor reduction, so in late game, it gives more benefit for your adc or bruiser, not just for j4 himself. Not only that, his flag can give adc 22% attack speed. So if you successfully EQ to peel for your adc, not only you lower the enemy armor, but also gives your adc attackspeed to finish him off.
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But why would we watch noob korean when we can watch best jungler tl streaming?
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On May 12 2014 03:26 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 03:01 Sufficiency wrote:On May 12 2014 02:47 chalice wrote:On May 11 2014 20:31 kongoline wrote:
how is xin hard lol, hes one of the most faceroll champions in game champions like xin require a base level of auto cancelling mechanics that the majority of league players don't have. like everyone in silver and below could probably move up an entire league tier just by taking a champ with an auto-reset type skill and practicing their mechanics against the golem camp for 15-20 minutes a week. I seriously doubt it. Playing against Silver people back then on my smurf after I descended into bronze made me realize it's not just the mechanics. There are multiple problems with most silver players (I am low plat in case that matters), but I actually find their decision making to be the most problematic. I agree. I play low plat/high gold ATM and find that it's mainly decision making (especially post lane decision making) that makes the difference. Second to that is attitude/playing on tilt and then mechanics. On the other hand my mechanics are bad so I may be biased. It's just that almost no amount of mechanics increase will let you win 1v5 but minor decision making changes will make those 4v4s into 5v4s.
can you really practice decision making though? i think the way the relationship works between these two aspects of skill is that you need a certain level of mechanical auto-pilot before your brain can actually focus on making the correct decisions.
i think a lot of bad silver-level mistakes are made, not by players that don't know what they are doing is wrong, but rather by players who momentarily tunnel-vision in on a task and don't have enough brain bandwidth left to pay attention to the overall game situation.
like i'd estimate the average map awareness for a silver player who is trying to last hit under tower to be approximately 0.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
Guys pls, he's just a tryout CLG just went through the effort of flying out and accommodating this Korean so they can reject him
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On May 12 2014 04:41 chalice wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 03:26 Goumindong wrote:On May 12 2014 03:01 Sufficiency wrote:On May 12 2014 02:47 chalice wrote:On May 11 2014 20:31 kongoline wrote:
how is xin hard lol, hes one of the most faceroll champions in game champions like xin require a base level of auto cancelling mechanics that the majority of league players don't have. like everyone in silver and below could probably move up an entire league tier just by taking a champ with an auto-reset type skill and practicing their mechanics against the golem camp for 15-20 minutes a week. I seriously doubt it. Playing against Silver people back then on my smurf after I descended into bronze made me realize it's not just the mechanics. There are multiple problems with most silver players (I am low plat in case that matters), but I actually find their decision making to be the most problematic. I agree. I play low plat/high gold ATM and find that it's mainly decision making (especially post lane decision making) that makes the difference. Second to that is attitude/playing on tilt and then mechanics. On the other hand my mechanics are bad so I may be biased. It's just that almost no amount of mechanics increase will let you win 1v5 but minor decision making changes will make those 4v4s into 5v4s. can you really practice decision making though? i think the way the relationship works between these two aspects of skill is that you need a certain level of mechanical auto-pilot before your brain can actually focus on making the correct decisions. i think a lot of bad silver-level mistakes are made, not by players that don't know what they are doing is wrong, but rather by players who momentarily tunnel-vision in on a task and don't have enough brain bandwidth left to pay attention to the overall game situation. like i'd estimate the average map awareness for a silver player who is trying to last hit under tower to be approximately 0.
Also players in gold and lower are really big pussies.When I smurfed it was so hard getting people to just engage and kill them.Like I had situations in which I stun 3 people with syndra burst someone and nobody would follow lol.
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On May 12 2014 04:43 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 04:41 chalice wrote:On May 12 2014 03:26 Goumindong wrote:On May 12 2014 03:01 Sufficiency wrote:On May 12 2014 02:47 chalice wrote:On May 11 2014 20:31 kongoline wrote:
how is xin hard lol, hes one of the most faceroll champions in game champions like xin require a base level of auto cancelling mechanics that the majority of league players don't have. like everyone in silver and below could probably move up an entire league tier just by taking a champ with an auto-reset type skill and practicing their mechanics against the golem camp for 15-20 minutes a week. I seriously doubt it. Playing against Silver people back then on my smurf after I descended into bronze made me realize it's not just the mechanics. There are multiple problems with most silver players (I am low plat in case that matters), but I actually find their decision making to be the most problematic. I agree. I play low plat/high gold ATM and find that it's mainly decision making (especially post lane decision making) that makes the difference. Second to that is attitude/playing on tilt and then mechanics. On the other hand my mechanics are bad so I may be biased. It's just that almost no amount of mechanics increase will let you win 1v5 but minor decision making changes will make those 4v4s into 5v4s. can you really practice decision making though? i think the way the relationship works between these two aspects of skill is that you need a certain level of mechanical auto-pilot before your brain can actually focus on making the correct decisions. i think a lot of bad silver-level mistakes are made, not by players that don't know what they are doing is wrong, but rather by players who momentarily tunnel-vision in on a task and don't have enough brain bandwidth left to pay attention to the overall game situation. like i'd estimate the average map awareness for a silver player who is trying to last hit under tower to be approximately 0. Also players in gold and lower are really big pussies.When I smurfed it was so hard getting people to just engage and kill them.Like I had situations in which I stun 3 people with syndra burst someone and nobody would follow lol.
this is a really good point, i think that i improved a lot when i played tristana every game and just went all-in whenever possible from level 2 onwards.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
Being a top laner in low elo has caused me to develop trust issues, I see the perfect chance for a shyv ult and before I go I suddenly become terrified that the team won't react and I'll just die and abandon that plan.
Also the whole "guys pls stop dying" aspect of lomoQ top lane
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On May 12 2014 00:19 Sufficiency wrote:
Yeah, I feel the hardest part as a jungler isn't raw mechanics - that part is actually fairly easy and even if you "missed an auto" it is rarely going to make a huge difference in a team.
The hardest part is making the decision to go in. Unlike a midlaner, say, you can't calculate how much your "burst" is. The amount of damage you do depends on how long you can survive and how your teammates react. To me, that is far more difficult to estimate.
why did you put missed an auto in quotes? Are you referring to my post?
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On May 12 2014 03:10 kongoline wrote:
as a laner i always thought rammus ganks are retarded and im happy hes not "viable", if he was im pretty sure he would be perma banned like before,
is euw down for anyone else? i cant login get msg server is busy Oo
I've seen Rammus players that can absolutely shit stomp everyone with him and turn into unkillable monsters. In general though when they lowered his taunt duration from 10 years to what it is now he wasnt really ban worth anymore.
Not to mention nerfed his W which gave like 200 armor/mr at max rank lolol
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On May 12 2014 03:01 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 02:47 chalice wrote:On May 11 2014 20:31 kongoline wrote:
how is xin hard lol, hes one of the most faceroll champions in game champions like xin require a base level of auto cancelling mechanics that the majority of league players don't have. like everyone in silver and below could probably move up an entire league tier just by taking a champ with an auto-reset type skill and practicing their mechanics against the golem camp for 15-20 minutes a week. I seriously doubt it. Playing against Silver people back then on my smurf after I descended into bronze made me realize it's not just the mechanics. There are multiple problems with most silver players (I am low plat in case that matters), but I actually find their decision making to be the most problematic.
not to get in to a borderline elo hell discussion, but the main problem with silver plays in my experience is that they are so bad at playing the lane, so bad at CS and capitalizing on strength that the rest of the game they play isnt league of legends. when you never see other people play correctly, how can you be expected to learn good decision making in the first place? when you never see someone farm up to the correct CS per time how can you judge hero strength?
the problems of most silver players are much more deep seated than using auto resets correctly or making better choices. when you cant make any assumptions about the movements and play of your own team let alone theirs, simple lane dominance is in imo the secret to rising out of low elo. if you have 200 cs at 20 mins you are going to win the game by pure brute force, if you can auto reset correctly you might get 1 or 2 more kills a game, hardly an insurmountable advantage.
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On May 12 2014 05:30 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 03:01 Sufficiency wrote:On May 12 2014 02:47 chalice wrote:On May 11 2014 20:31 kongoline wrote:
how is xin hard lol, hes one of the most faceroll champions in game champions like xin require a base level of auto cancelling mechanics that the majority of league players don't have. like everyone in silver and below could probably move up an entire league tier just by taking a champ with an auto-reset type skill and practicing their mechanics against the golem camp for 15-20 minutes a week. I seriously doubt it. Playing against Silver people back then on my smurf after I descended into bronze made me realize it's not just the mechanics. There are multiple problems with most silver players (I am low plat in case that matters), but I actually find their decision making to be the most problematic. not to get in to a borderline elo hell discussion, but the main problem with silver plays in my experience is that they are so bad at playing the lane, so bad at CS and capitalizing on strength that the rest of the game they play isnt league of legends. when you never see other people play correctly, how can you be expected to learn good decision making in the first place? when you never see someone farm up to the correct CS per time how can you judge hero strength? the problems of most silver players are much more deep seated than using auto resets correctly or making better choices. when you cant make any assumptions about the movements and play of your own team let alone theirs, simple lane dominance is in imo the secret to rising out of low elo. if you have 200 cs at 20 mins you are going to win the game by pure brute force, if you can auto reset correctly you might get 1 or 2 more kills a game, hardly an insurmountable advantage.
Playing lane bully heroes(crocodile) or playing really safe with lategame champs(jax) will win you alot of games in low elo
In general just not dying but csing really well will you get very far imo.
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so it looks like sufficiency is doubting chalice's argument that if low elo players were to practice their mechanics, they would move up in ranked.
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Just CSing well will only get you so far, and it won't win you games if you're retarded and constantly make poor decisions, like going into an area that isn't warded when you don't know where anyone is. Yes, if you have 200@20, you'll overpower your opponent, but doing that is pointless if afterwards everyone else is on an even footing or behind, and you die after winning the 1v1//1v2 whatever.
Just buying wards should help people move up in rankings more than just last hitting will, especially since farm priority doesn't mean that much in League.
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A low elo player can improve by improving on just about anything.
Mechanics are just the easiest thing to practice and improve on.
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A statement like, csing will help you more than warding, or strategy is more important than mechanics, are so sweeping, subjective, inane, masturbatory in the way that you think YOUR experience is ALL experience that they're kinda like self-help secrets that the dumb and insecure flock to. There's actually a great parallel in GIRL BLOG ADVICE too.
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hey guys i think getting dragons is moar important than winning ur lane at low elo, can we discuss this and have everyone contribute their priceless experiences? I bet u guys have gr8t insights.
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On May 12 2014 05:49 Ketara wrote:
A low elo player can improve by improving on just about anything.
Mechanics are just the easiest thing to practice and improve on.
well if we are just gonna say "people can get better at everything" thats the end of the conversation isnt it. all people can get better at all things.
On May 12 2014 05:56 zulu_nation8 wrote:
hey guys i think getting dragons is moar important than winning ur lane at low elo, can we discuss this and have everyone contribute their priceless experiences? I bet u guys have gr8t insights.
my insights are gr9.
but seriously, if this was such a simple thing to pin down, how to improve when you are total shit, silver league would be filled with good players.
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EPT
