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[Patch 4.7] Braum General Discussion - Page 22

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Updated TL LoL policy in regards to the use of "lomo"

In regards to theorycrafting and hyperbole, please have firsthand experience of the scenario before giving your input

Future of TL LoL, post Liquid`Dota standalone site
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-11 21:23:10
May 11 2014 21:05 GMT
#421
you know for years and years people weren't allowed to ask questions in the BW strat section without posting a replay, obv that's harder to do in LoL but if you're so fucking dumb that you can't even pinpoint the GENERAL AREA you need to improve on and have to fill the hole in your brain with advice like GET LOTS OF DRAGONS then you should go to reddit.

A better player can tell a worse player 10000 very specific tips and the worse player may very well not gain any elo at all, at least right after because everything has to be INTERNALIZED through experience before you can improve. It's the same as I can write you a fucking book on how to animation cancel but to actually do it in the heat of a battle takes many many games of practice. Just like I can tell you to GET MOAR DRAGONS, but how do you know when? you're probably gonna die a lot of times by trying to get dragons too early until you realize you shouldn't listen to dumb fucking advice on the internet.
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
May 11 2014 21:18 GMT
#422
http://realelohell.wordpress.com/articles/
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-11 21:20:39
May 11 2014 21:20 GMT
#423
This has a link to Smash's blog. The nostalgia. @_@
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
May 11 2014 21:21 GMT
#424
On May 12 2014 06:05 zulu_nation8 wrote:
you know for years and years people weren't allowed to ask questions in the BW strat section without posting a replay, obv that's harder to do in LoL but if you're so fucking dumb that you can't even pinpoint the GENERAL AREA you need to improve on and have to fill the hole in your brain with advice like GET LOTS OF DRAGONS then you should go to reddit.

A better player can tell a worse player 10000 very specific tips and the worse player may very well not gain any elo at all, at least right after because everything has to INTERNALIZED through experience before you can improve. It's the same as I can write you a fucking book on how to animation cancel but to actually do it in the heat of a battle takes many many games of practice. Just like I can tell you to GET MOAR DRAGONS, but how do you know when? you're probably gonna die a lot of times by trying to get dragons too early until you realize you shouldn't listen to dumb fucking advice on the internet.


you are probably right, its probably worth demanding replays before a discussion starts about improvement.
ParadeofMadness
Profile Joined February 2014
United Kingdom1027 Posts
May 11 2014 21:24 GMT
#425
best way to gain elo is probably pick some strong early game melee champ like panth or renek and win lane hard and kill their jungler when he comes as well. After that roam mid or bot Most people in silver or gold probably dont understand the concept of power spike and innate differentials very well
See Noob, Flame Noob. Top Lane main. 120ping master race Aspire to be one man rape train : choo-choo- yamedie~ mothafucka
Flonomenalz
Profile Joined May 2011
Nigeria3519 Posts
May 11 2014 21:25 GMT
#426
On May 12 2014 06:05 zulu_nation8 wrote:
you know for years and years people weren't allowed to ask questions in the BW strat section without posting a replay, obv that's harder to do in LoL but if you're so fucking dumb that you can't even pinpoint the GENERAL AREA you need to improve on and have to fill the hole in your brain with advice like GET LOTS OF DRAGONS then you should go to reddit.

A better player can tell a worse player 10000 very specific tips and the worse player may very well not gain any elo at all, at least right after because everything has to be INTERNALIZED through experience before you can improve. It's the same as I can write you a fucking book on how to animation cancel but to actually do it in the heat of a battle takes many many games of practice. Just like I can tell you to GET MOAR DRAGONS, but how do you know when? you're probably gonna die a lot of times by trying to get dragons too early until you realize you shouldn't listen to dumb fucking advice on the internet.

This is all that needs to be said right here.
I love crazymoving
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
May 11 2014 21:33 GMT
#427
On May 12 2014 04:18 canikizu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2014 03:34 Goumindong wrote:
On May 12 2014 03:19 nafta wrote:
On May 12 2014 03:18 Goumindong wrote:
On May 12 2014 03:00 nafta wrote:
On May 12 2014 02:56 Goumindong wrote:
On May 11 2014 18:08 GolemMadness wrote:
On May 11 2014 17:50 Pantagruel wrote:
I dunno, I usually destroy lane so hard that I have a decent sized budget but if I don't do well then I can envision j4 falling off badly in the mid game. Thats a moot point however because even with eclipse the same can be said for Leona. In lane though j4 seems more tanky then Leona and also has a lot more mobility to escape. On top of that he has great poke with his Q.

As for Xin, he has a delayed knock up and a slow and cannot escape so I don't think he'd work as well. It would basically be a weaker Leona without the advantages of j4.


It's not the same with Leona at all. She has so much CC and innate tankyness with her W that she's always useful. J4 has his W for a bit of tankyness, but unless you're maxing it first, it has a massive cooldown and doesn't give a large shield. His EQ combo is also not very reliable, and if you miss it in a team fight, you're pretty much fucked. Leona has a stun that lasts half a second longer than J4's knock up that's on cooldown 6 seconds shorter than J4's flag and isn't a skill shot.


Here is the difference between j4 and Leona.

Morgana counters Leona. J4 counters Morgana.

J4 has so much innate damage that is all physical that his inability to stun the enemy adc/support doesn't matter. He is immune to roots as he can e,q out of them so more has no way to stop his engages or easily poke/harass him down (he can respond by going in and proving his passive) and spell shields do not prevent getting locked into cataclysm.

His downside is being weak to alistar and Janna. But who plays alistar and Janna anymore?

And j4 isn't weak vs thresh?Ok m8.Not to mention that any of graves/lucian/vayne/ez(draven if good) can completely ignore you in lane phase and make the other ad cry.


That is true but you can ban thresh or only pick j4 as a counter.

I just mentioned thresh because you said janna/alistar are biggest counters.He isn't the only one that would beat j4 easily lol.Morgana and sona are pretty much only 2 supports that could have issues with j4.Everyone else would dumpster him and he gets outscaled by everyone anyway.


J4 gets a %armor pen and a max health auto attack stack. Buy just having tanky items peeling for your adc he will do more to cut through most of the hyper tanks in the game than any other champion. If he gets cleaver it's even better. He scales fine into the late game.

Correction: J4 does %armor reduction, so in late game, it gives more benefit for your adc or bruiser, not just for j4 himself. Not only that, his flag can give adc 22% attack speed. So if you successfully EQ to peel for your adc, not only you lower the enemy armor, but also gives your adc attackspeed to finish him off.


Yes that is what I meant to say, though the 22% attack speed isn't as important lategame (also you should level up e last because it has no CD component) because most AD's will have 3%/level scaling, Zerkers, and PD/Triforce/Shiv for a total attack speed bonus of 109-134 (152 for the 4%/level scalers of Ashe, Cait, Vayne, and Trist) before they use any AS boosting abilities.
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
May 11 2014 21:45 GMT
#428
On May 12 2014 06:24 ParadeofMadness wrote:
best way to gain elo is probably pick some strong early game melee champ like panth or renek and win lane hard and kill their jungler when he comes as well. After that roam mid or bot Most people in silver or gold probably dont understand the concept of power spike and innate differentials very well

the best way to gain elo is to get better at playing league of legends. people worry far too much about picking the right counter or the right op champ when individual player skill decides far more lanes/games than the matchups do.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23351 Posts
May 11 2014 21:54 GMT
#429
and by individual player skill you mean "skill"
canikizu
Profile Joined September 2010
4860 Posts
May 11 2014 22:23 GMT
#430
On May 12 2014 06:33 Goumindong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2014 04:18 canikizu wrote:
On May 12 2014 03:34 Goumindong wrote:
On May 12 2014 03:19 nafta wrote:
On May 12 2014 03:18 Goumindong wrote:
On May 12 2014 03:00 nafta wrote:
On May 12 2014 02:56 Goumindong wrote:
On May 11 2014 18:08 GolemMadness wrote:
On May 11 2014 17:50 Pantagruel wrote:
I dunno, I usually destroy lane so hard that I have a decent sized budget but if I don't do well then I can envision j4 falling off badly in the mid game. Thats a moot point however because even with eclipse the same can be said for Leona. In lane though j4 seems more tanky then Leona and also has a lot more mobility to escape. On top of that he has great poke with his Q.

As for Xin, he has a delayed knock up and a slow and cannot escape so I don't think he'd work as well. It would basically be a weaker Leona without the advantages of j4.


It's not the same with Leona at all. She has so much CC and innate tankyness with her W that she's always useful. J4 has his W for a bit of tankyness, but unless you're maxing it first, it has a massive cooldown and doesn't give a large shield. His EQ combo is also not very reliable, and if you miss it in a team fight, you're pretty much fucked. Leona has a stun that lasts half a second longer than J4's knock up that's on cooldown 6 seconds shorter than J4's flag and isn't a skill shot.


Here is the difference between j4 and Leona.

Morgana counters Leona. J4 counters Morgana.

J4 has so much innate damage that is all physical that his inability to stun the enemy adc/support doesn't matter. He is immune to roots as he can e,q out of them so more has no way to stop his engages or easily poke/harass him down (he can respond by going in and proving his passive) and spell shields do not prevent getting locked into cataclysm.

His downside is being weak to alistar and Janna. But who plays alistar and Janna anymore?

And j4 isn't weak vs thresh?Ok m8.Not to mention that any of graves/lucian/vayne/ez(draven if good) can completely ignore you in lane phase and make the other ad cry.


That is true but you can ban thresh or only pick j4 as a counter.

I just mentioned thresh because you said janna/alistar are biggest counters.He isn't the only one that would beat j4 easily lol.Morgana and sona are pretty much only 2 supports that could have issues with j4.Everyone else would dumpster him and he gets outscaled by everyone anyway.


J4 gets a %armor pen and a max health auto attack stack. Buy just having tanky items peeling for your adc he will do more to cut through most of the hyper tanks in the game than any other champion. If he gets cleaver it's even better. He scales fine into the late game.

Correction: J4 does %armor reduction, so in late game, it gives more benefit for your adc or bruiser, not just for j4 himself. Not only that, his flag can give adc 22% attack speed. So if you successfully EQ to peel for your adc, not only you lower the enemy armor, but also gives your adc attackspeed to finish him off.


Yes that is what I meant to say, though the 22% attack speed isn't as important lategame (also you should level up e last because it has no CD component) because most AD's will have 3%/level scaling, Zerkers, and PD/Triforce/Shiv for a total attack speed bonus of 109-134 (152 for the 4%/level scalers of Ashe, Cait, Vayne, and Trist) before they use any AS boosting abilities.

Hm, most people I watch playing max W last, and max E after Q. Is there any new build that I don't know?
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
May 11 2014 22:25 GMT
#431
Some people maxed W second for the additional tankiness out of the jungle. You know, when J4 was actually still played.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
May 11 2014 22:30 GMT
#432
Used to to Q>E>W to boost dat aura.
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
May 11 2014 22:31 GMT
#433
As support you don't need the clear speed afforded by the 6%/level attack speed. The 3 armor/level passive bonus is less than your level up bonus. 40 magic damage/level on a 13 second CD is a lot less powerful than 50-90 Shield/level on a 18-12 second CD and more slow. From jungle i can see getting more damage but from support i can't see maxing E second for near any reason.
canikizu
Profile Joined September 2010
4860 Posts
May 11 2014 22:42 GMT
#434
On May 12 2014 07:25 Alaric wrote:
Some people maxed W second for the additional tankiness out of the jungle. You know, when J4 was actually still played.

Dude, J4 is my op champ. I have like 75% winrate in 40 games with him this season.
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
May 11 2014 22:44 GMT
#435
On May 12 2014 07:42 canikizu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2014 07:25 Alaric wrote:
Some people maxed W second for the additional tankiness out of the jungle. You know, when J4 was actually still played.

Dude, J4 is my op champ. I have like 75% winrate in 40 games with him this season.

That clearly means he is op and popular yeah.
canikizu
Profile Joined September 2010
4860 Posts
May 11 2014 22:45 GMT
#436
On May 12 2014 07:44 nafta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2014 07:42 canikizu wrote:
On May 12 2014 07:25 Alaric wrote:
Some people maxed W second for the additional tankiness out of the jungle. You know, when J4 was actually still played.

Dude, J4 is my op champ. I have like 75% winrate in 40 games with him this season.

That clearly means he is op and popular yeah.

B-but he's as op as gankplank is yo.
ParadeofMadness
Profile Joined February 2014
United Kingdom1027 Posts
May 11 2014 22:51 GMT
#437
On May 12 2014 06:45 chalice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2014 06:24 ParadeofMadness wrote:
best way to gain elo is probably pick some strong early game melee champ like panth or renek and win lane hard and kill their jungler when he comes as well. After that roam mid or bot Most people in silver or gold probably dont understand the concept of power spike and innate differentials very well

the best way to gain elo is to get better at playing league of legends. people worry far too much about picking the right counter or the right op champ when individual player skill decides far more lanes/games than the matchups do.


No shit everyone agrees the best way to gain elo is to get better. That is because the asessemnt of 'better' in LoL is just the gaining of elo. Telling a silver to get better helps them absoultey nil. Everyone agrees to get better, the problem is on the details of what exactly constitutes 'better'. And lane match ups play a determing factor in winning in soloq.
See Noob, Flame Noob. Top Lane main. 120ping master race Aspire to be one man rape train : choo-choo- yamedie~ mothafucka
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
May 11 2014 22:57 GMT
#438
On May 12 2014 07:51 ParadeofMadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2014 06:45 chalice wrote:
On May 12 2014 06:24 ParadeofMadness wrote:
best way to gain elo is probably pick some strong early game melee champ like panth or renek and win lane hard and kill their jungler when he comes as well. After that roam mid or bot Most people in silver or gold probably dont understand the concept of power spike and innate differentials very well

the best way to gain elo is to get better at playing league of legends. people worry far too much about picking the right counter or the right op champ when individual player skill decides far more lanes/games than the matchups do.


No shit everyone agrees the best way to gain elo is to get better. That is because the asessemnt of 'better' in LoL is just the gaining of elo. Telling a silver to get better helps them absoultey nil. Everyone agrees to get better, the problem is on the details of what exactly constitutes 'better'. And lane match ups play a determing factor in winning in soloq.

Its actually really simple:last hit better and + Show Spoiler +
.That is literally all there is to it.
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
May 11 2014 23:03 GMT
#439
On May 12 2014 06:05 zulu_nation8 wrote:
you know for years and years people weren't allowed to ask questions in the BW strat section without posting a replay, obv that's harder to do in LoL but if you're so fucking dumb that you can't even pinpoint the GENERAL AREA you need to improve on and have to fill the hole in your brain with advice like GET LOTS OF DRAGONS then you should go to reddit.

A better player can tell a worse player 10000 very specific tips and the worse player may very well not gain any elo at all, at least right after because everything has to be INTERNALIZED through experience before you can improve. It's the same as I can write you a fucking book on how to animation cancel but to actually do it in the heat of a battle takes many many games of practice. Just like I can tell you to GET MOAR DRAGONS, but how do you know when? you're probably gonna die a lot of times by trying to get dragons too early until you realize you shouldn't listen to dumb fucking advice on the internet.

haha, this is the post of the day for me.
sup bly?
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Velocirapture
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States983 Posts
May 11 2014 23:10 GMT
#440
I think that picking appropriate champs is a bigger deal than most people want to admit. Unless you hugely outclass your opponent, winning lane in solo queue is often determined in champ select. It may sound jaded but once you start assuming that you will get ganked ten times in the first ten minutes and get zero help from your allies the viable champ pool shrinks considerably. Renekton/nidalee/lucian etc. are all viable with this assumption and who do we see in D1 play over and over again? Go ahead and play the high risk/high reward champs if you find them more fun but don't then get mad when you go 0-10 because nobody calls mia and your jungle Yi won't leave jungle until he has 20 FF stacks.
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