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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
On April 24 2014 23:34 Nos- wrote: I wonder why orianna doesn't get ap scaling on her dissonance, although i guess scaling slow would be lame as hell to deal with don't be silly, only champs that riot meant to be played as supports get utility ap scaling | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
the travel time from base to baron was just a hypothetical use of math/timing based coaching/preparation that i thought of at like 3am, not a specific claim made by anyone. like when KT is doing a 2 man baron at 25 minutes do you really think that they don't have a very good approximation of how much time the other 3 members need to stall the other team and exactly when they should join them in the baron pit to finish him off before the other team can react? if korean coaching staffs aren't doing a ton of math and timing grunt work for the pro players, what exactly are you claiming that their role is? | ||
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
On April 24 2014 23:47 Ketara wrote: Not to mention Orianna is already completely fucking overpowered. wait what? Orianna's op now? | ||
739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On April 25 2014 00:00 chalice wrote: damn you guys are really fixated on this lastshadow guy, i said that he MAY have been the source of something i read months ago and there are like 20 posts focusing on nothing but discrediting him. the travel time from base to baron was just a hypothetical use of math/timing based coaching/preparation that i thought of at like 3am, not a specific claim made by anyone. like when KT is doing a 2 man baron at 25 minutes do you really think that they don't have a very good approximation of how much time the other 3 members need to stall the other team and exactly when they should join them in the baron pit to finish him off before the other team can react? if korean coaching staffs aren't doing a ton of math and timing grunt work for the pro players, what exactly are you claiming that their role is? He is basically a cheating(yes he did cheat) map rigging over egotistical player who should just be forgotten and should have never been unbanned here in the first place | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
In regards to the whole intuition vs calculation. Pretty sure there's a happy medium. In this clip you can see shiphtur recognizes that leblanc is in kill range and then checks the mana cost real quick to make sure he can pull it off. | ||
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
On April 25 2014 00:05 arb wrote: He is basically a cheating(yes he did cheat) map rigging over egotistical player who should just be forgotten and should have never been unbanned here in the first place but what the fuck does that have to do korean coaching infrastructure? | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
But then I have to figure it out for the enemy hp/mr/armor. So I have to have them in vision long enough to see their mr/armor and I have to be able to click on them before I am planning my burst to read their HP. I have to recalculate every back. Just as an aside, if you were actually trying to do burst damage math on the fly, I think it'd be idiotic to try and do armor/MR math as damage reductions, because doing the division to convert armor/MR to % reductions is an extra mental math step. Converting HP+resistances to EHP with a little bit of fudging the numbers for your damage split between magic and physical is way easier. | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On April 25 2014 00:09 wei2coolman wrote: In regards to the whole intuition vs calculation. Pretty sure there's a happy medium. In this clip you can see shiphtur recognizes that leblanc is in kill range and then checks the mana cost real quick to make sure he can pull it off. Adding up mana costs is not really comparable to the discussion, which was: did shiphtur analyze Leblanc's items, check her runes and masteries, then break out his mental Excel spreadsheet and work out her total EHP factoring in his ignite, her natural HP5, the minion aggro, etc. and only then figure out LETHALITY ONLINE? Or did he just say, fuck it, I've played this matchup a hundred times, based on how much damage I was doing before, this is gonna be a kill I can feel it? | ||
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Gahlo
United States35130 Posts
On April 25 2014 00:15 chalice wrote: but what the fuck does that have to do korean coaching infrastructure? Nothing. You just brought up a sore subject for our slice of TL. So now we're itching the scratch. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 25 2014 00:17 GrandInquisitor wrote: Adding up mana costs is not really comparable to the discussion, which was: did shiphtur analyze Leblanc's items, check her runes and masteries, then break out his mental Excel spreadsheet and work out her total EHP factoring in his ignite, her natural HP5, the minion aggro, etc. and only then figure out LETHALITY ONLINE? Or did he just say, fuck it, I've played this matchup a hundred times, based on how much damage I was doing before, this is gonna be a kill I can feel it? Again though, there's a medium between pure experience, and using some rough mental math to extend what your experience is capable of. It's obviously better to go by experience on anything that takes a significant amount of mental effort, but theres a lot of minor variation that results in game states that you can do some trivial mental math to adjust for without necessarily having seen that scenario before (guy has 20 more MR than a state I'm familiar with, I have 40 more AP than a state I'm familiar with, etc.). For these kinds of things, it's not rocket science to figure out how these affect your burst. You're not doing this from scratch, you're taking what you've seen before and applying your game knowledge to extrapolate a bit. EDIT: That said, it's not the kind of thing coaches make sense for at all because it's on-the-fly mental math for someone who already has all the pieces themselves. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On April 25 2014 00:17 Gahlo wrote: Nothing. You just brought up a sore subject for our slice of TL. So now we're itching the scratch. I feel like people who have been on teamliquid long enough to know what kind of a shitbag he is feels relief itching the scratch on this subject :> That is however all i'll say on him. On April 25 2014 00:22 TheYango wrote: Again though, there's a medium between pure experience, and using some rough mental math to extend what your experience is capable of. It's obviously better to go by experience on anything that takes a significant amount of mental effort, but theres a lot of minor variation that results in game states that you can do some trivial mental math to adjust for without necessarily having seen that scenario before (guy has 20 more MR than a state I'm familiar with, I have 40 more AP than a state I'm familiar with, etc.). For these kinds of things, it's not rocket science to figure out how these affect your burst. You're not doing this from scratch, you're taking what you've seen before and applying your game knowledge to extrapolate a bit. EDIT: That said, it's not the kind of thing coaches make sense for at all because it's on-the-fly mental math for someone who already has all the pieces themselves. i feel like i remembering reading somewhere that faker actually had most of the math memorized for leblanc it hink it was, to the point he could look at someones mr/hp and decide whether he could shit on them instantly or not, and be able to tell you their hp if he couldnt to some kind of degree. not sure where i read it or i'd source it, that was just kinda interesting i thought | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21242 Posts
On April 25 2014 00:22 TheYango wrote: [ EDIT: That said, it's not the kind of thing coaches make sense for at all because it's on-the-fly mental math for someone who already has all the pieces themselves. Yeah, this is the main point. This falls squarely in the realm of individual mechanics, which beyond encouraging/guiding players to develop for themselves, is something that a coaching staff would really have no place in. Of course people do math, but I guarantee you players don't do arithmetic every time they go in for a kill. They do quick adjustments based on the game, but they're definitely not occupied with recalling exactly how much AP they need at point X in the game...there are more important things to focus on by far lol. Do you really think the Ozone coach plops down a stack of tables of damage done by Zed at different time periods in the game to Dade every night and tells him to memorize it...? | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21242 Posts
On April 25 2014 00:34 arb wrote: i feel like i remembering reading somewhere that faker actually had most of the math memorized for leblanc it hink it was, to the point he could look at someones mr/hp and decide whether he could shit on them instantly or not, and be able to tell you their hp if he couldnt to some kind of degree. not sure where i read it or i'd source it, that was just kinda interesting i thought I can do that with Veigar because I've played a few million games of Veigar, but I definitely don't "do the math" every time and it's not something that's the result of raw memorization of tables/charts. I think something probably got lost in translation when he said he "memorized" numbers. | ||
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
Realistically speaking, you can't do elaborate computations. You need to make heuristic s that are easier to remember / compute. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35130 Posts
On April 25 2014 01:07 Sufficiency wrote: If I was the coach I would definitely help my players to run some calculations on burst amount (at least for midlaners). Realistically speaking, you can't do elaborate computations. You need to make heuristic s that are easier to remember / compute. I'm sure they do specific timings, like a level 6 all-in, but anything outside of occasions like that I doubt it. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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