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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On April 24 2014 06:05 zulu_nation8 wrote: WHY DO PRO PLAYERS LISTEN TO WHAT THE COMMUNITY THINKS OF THEM LOL For them, it's all about public perception. They want to be accepted, they want to be loved. They're fragile human beings and they're mentally weak. Instead of trusting themselves and what their respected peers think of them, they let themselves be affected by the opinions of a buncha shitters on Reddit. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
Also the difficult part is really getting a coach who is, like, actually good. I'm gonna be honest: 99% of coaches/analysts/whatever don't know shit. In LCS, people just pluck some guy who sounds like he knows what he's talking about and put him in some manager/coach role, without actually investigating what that's actually about. In the history of BW in Korea and Dota in China, which extends to League infrastructure today, all the major coaches were retired pro players. They -knew- what it takes to build a successful team, and part of that is that they had a much better way of identifying promising talent and sticking to them when they underperform. A lot of it comes down to being confident enough in your own abilities as a coach/manager to pick up an unknown scrub, see something in him, and stand by him even when he feeds for six months in a role. Just going to use the story of Caomei again cause people know exactly who he is, and reiterate that despite the months of harassment and underperformance, the WE coaching team stuck by him and trusted in their own judgment. The coaching team didn't blame Caomei, they created an environment where he was able to improve. In NA, because the scene is so young and the infrastructure is so undeveloped, the coaches are, to put it bluntly, just randoms that they found off the side of the street. When a player underperforms, the immediate reaction is that the player sucks and they should find someone else, except they don't stop to think about what is needed from the management to properly nurture and grow a player. | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On April 24 2014 06:21 TheYango wrote: To be fair, the same organization rule exists in LPL, it's just teams like LMQ loophole their way out of it. Let's be real. Most teams do have a shitter second team in LSPL. | ||
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-Zoda-
France3578 Posts
On April 24 2014 05:25 red_ wrote: You can get visas that last years(work and sport visas), but I think those take longer to acquire because of the requirements to get them. Tourist/travel visas last anywhere from 3 weeks to 6 months, and can typically be acquired quickly with some exceptions(the country you are coming from/going to). LCS players are eligible for the sport visas since the ruling last year, but I don't know that any players had gotten them yet. Crumbzz has a sport visa, he was the first one to get it. Doublelift probably has it as well. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
They're impatient and unreasonable to expect success so fast when there are many aspects to take into consideration (Meshing with team, enlarging champion pools, etc) | ||
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Gahlo
United States35161 Posts
On April 24 2014 06:24 Fusilero wrote: Crumbzz, shiphtur and bjergsen afaik have them. I'll assume that dexter probably has one as well. To further this, Bjergsen was approved for a 5 year visa. | ||
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-Zoda-
France3578 Posts
They train at the house and play sometimes for less interesting games (in LCS it could be against teams you usually win). Few players came to full time with this like GMB, Emperor iirc... It puts a bit of pressure on players as well. | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
On April 24 2014 06:25 Roffles wrote: To put it bluntly, NA expects everyone they pick up to immediately pan out like Quas did with Curse. Picked a highly touted solo queue player who was able to transition that into LCS success. Then you have other scrubs like Innox who flat out just hasn't cut it for EG. They're impatient and unreasonable to expect success so fast when there are many aspects to take into consideration (Meshing with team, enlarging champion pools, etc) Nien was legitimately shit though benching him is the right choice LOL | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On April 24 2014 06:36 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Nien was legitimately shit though benching him is the right choice LOL Nien has also said that he only wants to be on a top team, but no top team is willing to recruit random pubstar and train them into pro player, so there is a disconnect between potential NA talent and who and where to grab it from. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On April 24 2014 06:33 -Zoda- wrote: The way some korean teams act with subs could ba kinda good no ? They train at the house and play sometimes for less interesting games (in LCS it could be against teams you usually win). Few players came to full time with this like GMB, Emperor iirc... It puts a bit of pressure on players as well. Emperor wasn't part of CJ blaze's rotating bot lane, it was cptjack/lustboy/hermes/muse and all combos sucked lol. I'd like to think that subs can put pressure on players to perform but honestly I don't think it really matters unless the team actually wanted to transition. Screwing around just made the roster weak especially when the players didn't work as evidenced by season 3 CJ who kept rotating frost mids and blaze bots and both ended up making the teams completely unable to compete with SKT and KTB. An example of the subs being used well is when KTB used leopard to slowly integrate him into the team so they can move kakao to KTA and insec back to jungle but besides that I don't think it really matters. | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
Aspiring NA talents see BurgerKing carry TSM and stream with 20k viewers and that's where they see themselves, and they don't consider/want to consider the bitch work it takes to get there, and that's why the scene will forever stagnate outside of very rare people who are so good and so motivated that they can do everything themselves. That's why we have 1 C9 who is like 0-3 vs. Fnatic and a legion of shitters who will lose to Saigon Jokers at World's. Don't understand why people are so delusional about the state of the NA Scene, it's not some simple issue of "we gotta train harder" or "we gotta practice smarter" that's separating them from Korea and China, it's over a decade of insitutionalized ESPORTS and infrastructure that's creating the gap, and without people who are willing to put in the work to replicate that, NA will forever be a third tier region of little consequence outside of marketing. If everyone accepts that and is OK with it, I have absolutely no problem with it (and neither does Riot TBH) - who wouldn't want to sit around and stream League for 20k people and make six digits? But it is insulting when people want to do that while claiming to be competitive with people who are actually good at the game. The reason Europe is stronger than NA is the exact same issue - they have a smidgeon more history and experience doing this kind of stuff, and that's why Fnatic - an ancient name - is able to be #1 again and again despite looking like shit every season. | ||
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Maluk
France987 Posts
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On April 24 2014 06:45 Maluk wrote: What is lomo ? ;-; lmao | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On April 24 2014 06:45 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Good luck getting any NA pro as a sub lol, everyone wants to be Reginaldo2.0-calltheshots-carrytheteam, no one would want to sign to be some sub bitch who doesn't even get to play unless it's in throwaway games. Aspiring NA talents see BurgerKing carry TSM and stream with 20k viewers and that's where they see themselves, and they don't consider/want to consider the bitch work it takes to get there, and that's why the scene will forever stagnate outside of very rare people who are so good and so motivated that they can do everything themselves. That's why we have 1 C9 who is like 0-3 vs. Fnatic and a legion of shitters who will lose to Saigon Jokers at World's. Tl;dr NA needs more shiphturs, people who dgaf about the 20k TSM TSM TSM streams and are just out to get good. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On April 24 2014 06:25 Roffles wrote: To put it bluntly, NA expects everyone they pick up to immediately pan out like Quas did with Curse. Picked a highly touted solo queue player who was able to transition that into LCS success. Then you have other scrubs like Innox who flat out just hasn't cut it for EG. They're impatient and unreasonable to expect success so fast when there are many aspects to take into consideration (Meshing with team, enlarging champion pools, etc) To be fair most teams don't have the luxury of picking up new talent and letting if develop. One bad split and you're relegated and a lot of these teams can't survive without riot salary because there's not enough money in the amateur scene. Yeah it's getting better but it's still rough if you're not in LCS or don't have big sponsors. In the specific case of CLG they want to contend for a spot at worlds, they need someone who will perform fast. If LCS was formatted more like OGN maybe teams would be more patient | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
On April 24 2014 06:49 overt wrote: To be fair most teams don't have the luxury of picking up new talent and letting if develop. One bad split and you're relegated and a lot of these teams can't survive without riot salary because there's not enough money in the amateur scene. Yeah it's getting better but it's still rough if you're not in LCS or don't have big sponsors. In the specific case of CLG they want to contend for a spot at worlds, they need someone who will perform fast. If LCS was formatted more like OGN maybe teams would be more patient That's absurd. CLG, of all teams, has the most luxury to be patient. They are good enough that they're in absolutely zero danger of being relegated by these shitter challengers, or hell, even dropping below fourth in LCS. They have the money and the luxury to train someone up over the course of a year to try to be a world's contender. | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
On April 24 2014 06:48 Fusilero wrote: Tl;dr NA needs more shiphturs, people who dgaf about the 20k TSM TSM TSM streams and are just out to get good. And when five Shiphturs happen to coalesce, you get the only non-garbage NA team, C9. Shiphtur just needs to pray to god he can find 4 more people like him. In fact I said this exact same thing before - C9 did not just magically appear out of nowhere, these guys were like bottom of the barrel for two years across many random teams playing shitty amateur leagues and online tournament qualifiers before they finally got together, STILL failed to qualify LCS, but toughed it out. And now they're at least 10x better than anyone else in NA. Even more impressive was the fact that When C9 went through all this, amateur scene support was non-existent. You think support for challenger teams is bad now? The prize pool today is 100x larger than when C9 was getting through amateur tourneys back in the day. You legitimately have a tournament that paves a direct, no-nonsense method of getting into the LCS - all you have to do is win. Why do you think LMQ saw the opportunity and pounced? They knew that, as a professional team with real organization and infrastructure behind them, walking into the LCS will be the easiest paycheck of their lives. | ||
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