EPT[Patch 4.4] CUDDLY INCOMING! ヽ(*・ω・)ﾉ - Page 131
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
On April 01 2014 08:18 Nos- wrote: I just hope Riot's allstar games are 1/10th as entertaining as the ogn allstar games I doubt it. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
Was looking at week 10 LCS stats and Randy's was built/being built in all the games but 2, and in the 2 the no Randy's teams lost. Edit: The further that, all the popular jungles (Elise, Kha'Zix, Eve, Wu, Panth, Lee) all have long range or invisible engages (or eve ult) to get in, Randy's, and still survive. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23461 Posts
you wont find any kha zix or lees or elises jumping in just to randuins, its just the best armour item lee's are normally too busy wombo comboing, only potentially wukong and panth jump in and randuins, and its not the reason they are picked either, their engages are strong anyway | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
All in all, ignore me I'm an idiot. Edit: Ty Slayer, that's what I was asking! <3 | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23461 Posts
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
Was curious how they all went through this shift at the same time, and noticed one common item EVERYWHERE. Cause people say they are on top because "OMG DMG JUNGLES #1" but many of them are being built light on damage. Combine that with Banshees everywhere (I know that's because it's just a damn good item) to get the user in even further, seems like it's not about 'damage junglers" anymore like people say, but instead hybrid dmg/tank Randuin's systems that can deliver the payload and still survive. Just random thoughts. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
We wouldn't be getting stuff like Kha'Zix in the jungle if the offlane wasn't so filled with tanky shit already. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On April 01 2014 07:55 Goumindong wrote: Depends on whom you're bursting. AD's and AP's did not get any more items. Janna has primarily been about protecting and advancing the power of a consistent DPS AD. The ability of your consistent DPS depends on the strength of the enemy team, both in the number and power of their tanks (whom you more or less have to kill first), and the number and power of their burst (who have the power to kill you before you can do anything) by adding more and more powerful of these, Janna has gotten weaker, even if she has more items herself. In Season 3 you had 3-4 threats who had money. One was the enemy AD, so that is a combination of tank/burst out of 3 champions. Two tanks and one burst, or two burst and one tank were most common. Sometimes you got lucky(as Janna) and they had extra consistent damage champions Now you have 5 threats who have money. One is the enemy AD. So you have 4 threats who have money. Call it two burst and two tank. Each one is making the advantage that Janna brought weaker. If they have more burst then you have a harder time protecting your squishies (and you're pretty squishy yourself). If they've more tank then the person you're protecting is less efficient. eh, i think it's simpler than that. Janna is just weaker in every way than other supports. Want aoe cc? Pick Annie, Leona, Sona. Want to protect your AD carry? Pick Thresh, Lulu, Morgana. Her only redeeming quality was the fact that she had insane mobility via W (which got nerfed) and a very powerful global passive (which also got nerfed). She also could go mid, build AP and act as an insane tower pusher/seige defense, but that got nerfed too. Riot took a sub-par support, then nerfed everything that was strong about her in the S4 support changes. The only thing she was ever picked for (post E nerfs, which was like...season 1~2) was her ability to disengage, which basically became useless/outclassed once people started picking up Shurelya's/Talisman. On April 01 2014 08:44 Diamond wrote: I guess more of is the Randuin's delivery is what is keeping them all on top? Was not long ago all these champs were used for damage, with little defenses, now they have evolved into mainly tanky with a touch of damage (or combo items like Hexdrinker). Was curious how they all went through this shift at the same time, and noticed one common item EVERYWHERE. Cause people say they are on top because "OMG DMG JUNGLES #1" but many of them are being built light on damage. Combine that with Banshees everywhere (I know that's because it's just a damn good item) to get the user in even further, seems like it's not about 'damage junglers" anymore like people say, but instead hybrid dmg/tank Randuin's systems that can deliver the payload and still survive. Just random thoughts. You're looking at the itemization of junglers wrong. Junglers aren't picking up Randuins or being picked because they're a "Randuins delivery system." It's more that Junglers are building Randuin's because it's the only good armor item for them. As a melee in competitive play, you have two choices: be an assassin or be tanky. Junglers don't have the luxury of building like an assassin because the income isn't there. Therefore they build tanky. There are 4 strong armor items in the game: Sunfire, Frozen Heart, Randuin's, and Thornmail. Sunfire is a timing item - it gets weaker as the game goes on and needs to be rushed reasonably early. Junglers tend to not have the ability to get it early enough for it to be useful. FH has been nerfed repeatedly and isn't as cost-effective as it used to be. Plus, it invest a lot of gold into mana stats, which most junglers don't need. It also shares a weakness with Thornmail in that it's more or less useless against AP champs. With limited income, junglers have to be efficient as possible with their gold. Therefore, Randuin's. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
Basically everyone was building like Meteos it seemed, now it's more hybrid tank/dmg. Idk this is sort of a stupid question of me, I should have thought how to word it better from the start, as I still don't know what I'm trying to say here. | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
On April 01 2014 07:55 Goumindong wrote: Depends on whom you're bursting. AD's and AP's did not get any more items. Janna has primarily been about protecting and advancing the power of a consistent DPS AD. The ability of your consistent DPS depends on the strength of the enemy team, both in the number and power of their tanks (whom you more or less have to kill first), and the number and power of their burst (who have the power to kill you before you can do anything) by adding more and more powerful of these, Janna has gotten weaker, even if she has more items herself. In Season 3 you had 3-4 threats who had money. One was the enemy AD, so that is a combination of tank/burst out of 3 champions. Two tanks and one burst, or two burst and one tank were most common. Sometimes you got lucky(as Janna) and they had extra consistent damage champions Now you have 5 threats who have money. One is the enemy AD. So you have 4 threats who have money. Call it two burst and two tank. Each one is making the advantage that Janna brought weaker. If they have more burst then you have a harder time protecting your squishies (and you're pretty squishy yourself). If they've more tank then the person you're protecting is less efficient. Janna is about pushing towers and stopping engages and not teamfighting where she is bad which is why she is bad lategame which I always said. This is also what she would be doing well if she wasn't weak. An Annie with 3 support items is not doing more damage than Annie with boots and sightstone and 10 pinkwards. Jungler are all early damage into tank because XP is amazing skill toi have. Buff golem and you can skip early damage and go full tank again on stuff like VI. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On April 01 2014 08:49 Ryuu314 wrote: eh, i think it's simpler than that. Janna is just weaker in every way than other supports. Want aoe cc? Pick Annie, Leona, Sona. Want to protect your AD carry? Pick Thresh, Lulu, Morgana. Her only redeeming quality was the fact that she had insane mobility via W (which got nerfed) and a very powerful global passive (which also got nerfed). She also could go mid, build AP and act as an insane tower pusher/seige defense, but that got nerfed too. Riot took a sub-par support, then nerfed everything that was strong about her in the S4 support changes. The only thing she was ever picked for (post E nerfs, which was like...season 1~2) was her ability to disengage, which basically became useless/outclassed once people started picking up Shurelya's/Talisman. Also, I think her S3 winrate was very related to how easy it was to throw with a lot of the popular champions, and Janna is a big anti-throw champ. Like, half of S3 was "Explode one person, watch as the rest of their team goes in 1v5 trying to save them, win the game." Janna, when decently strong, is very anti-throw, so you would probably win the majority of the games you were supposed to, plus the midlaners generated the picks in S3, not the supports so her lack of strong pick potential wasn't that much of a detriment. Also people forget that the "changes" to Janna were straight nerfs to her. People probably have their minds clouded by the Lulu changes that turned out decently for Lulu, but Janna did not get that same treatment. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
He really is just a shitty Lucian. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23461 Posts
On April 01 2014 08:44 Diamond wrote: I guess more of is the Randuin's delivery is what is keeping them all on top? Was not long ago all these champs were used for damage, with little defenses, now they have evolved into mainly tanky with a touch of damage (or combo items like Hexdrinker). Was curious how they all went through this shift at the same time, and noticed one common item EVERYWHERE. Cause people say they are on top because "OMG DMG JUNGLES #1" but many of them are being built light on damage. Combine that with Banshees everywhere (I know that's because it's just a damn good item) to get the user in even further, seems like it's not about 'damage junglers" anymore like people say, but instead hybrid dmg/tank Randuin's systems that can deliver the payload and still survive. Just random thoughts. no, randuins has nothing to do with it its been the prime armour item forever iniating melees junglers have always been nearly mandatory (in competitive) in non poke comps unless you're running mass bruisers | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On April 01 2014 08:59 Ketara wrote: Ezreal depresses me these days. He really is just a shitty Lucian. A lot of old ADs are basically shitty Lucians. Thanks Obama | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On April 01 2014 08:59 Ketara wrote: Ezreal depresses me these days. He really is just a shitty Lucian. Ez still playable, he's a pretty safe laner still, it's just hard for him to win lane now. Ez going even in lane isn't that threatening either. Blue build Ez is still insanely fun to play. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
On April 01 2014 09:14 nafta wrote: Ez still best ad if you have double jungle or afk support gotta give him that. his 1v2 is S tier in the adc pool | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On April 01 2014 08:54 Eppa! wrote: Janna is about pushing towers and stopping engages and not teamfighting where she is bad which is why she is bad lategame which I always said. This is also what she would be doing well if she wasn't weak. Janna isn't a tower pushing support. She isn't bad at it if no one is opposing her, but she isn't Sona, she doesn't win lane and keep shoving the lane down throats. She doesn't sustain a siege (though she can protect one). Janna has always been about peel for her carry. Her lategame is/was amazing because she provides so much peel for the carry near ensuring that your carry would be relevant lategame (bonus AD) and alive to do that damage (big shield, big heal on ultimate, big peel in Q and W and bonus move speed) On April 01 2014 08:57 cLutZ wrote: Also, I think her S3 winrate was very related to how easy it was to throw with a lot of the popular champions, and Janna is a big anti-throw champ. Like, half of S3 was "Explode one person, watch as the rest of their team goes in 1v5 trying to save them, win the game." Janna, when decently strong, is very anti-throw, so you would probably win the majority of the games you were supposed to, plus the midlaners generated the picks in S3, not the supports so her lack of strong pick potential wasn't that much of a detriment. Also people forget that the "changes" to Janna were straight nerfs to her. People probably have their minds clouded by the Lulu changes that turned out decently for Lulu, but Janna did not get that same treatment. I agree with both of these things. | ||
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