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On January 15 2014 11:21 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 11:10 cLutZ wrote:
Yea, laneswaps basically turned off "counterpicks" for botlane, but it also has turned off 2 kinds of champs in toplane: weak vs. 2v1, and easily counterpicked. I think, if they are going to enforce the 2v2 meta, lategame AD Carries need serious buffs. It makes them situational champs to draft based on how the opponent drafts and it makes the champs that are good at both stable 1st/2nd picks--it doesn't "turn off" those champs because based on the bot lane picks because your opponent cannot punish everything at once. A weak 1v1 matchup can't be punished if the bot lane picks force you to 2v1, and likewise a weak 1v2 can't be punished if you have to 2v2 the enemy bot lane. It adds overall depth to the draft to allow teams to freely 2v1 and 2v2, even if it makes certain champs harder to pick early.
Basically, forcibly adding restrictions will never add to more diversity in the long term, because workarounds become much stronger.
Also, requesting Ketara to do the math on new Spirit Stone item. I'm assuming its weaker early and stronger later than the old pure regen version?
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When did I get good at math? I'm just not lazy.
Also, "math on spirit stone" is going to depend on the champion since the more damage per mana you do, the more efficient it will be.
But considering people I think in general think Wraith stone right now has crazy regen, I'd imagine it's a buff. Also note that the regen on Wraith stone itself got nerfed. Has more AP now tho.
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United States23745 Posts
I remember when I expected Monte to mathcraft everything out.
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The terms "balance, buff, nerf, etc." are antifun and no longer Riot-Approved
De-Fog Based Riot please
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no nid or ziggs nerfs lol gtfo
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so they nerf shyvs early game and dont touch her late game, yes because shyv was played top for her early wtf riot's so fucking clueless
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Nigh perma-tibbers, that's all kind of unnecessary.
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LOL
GHOSTCRAWLER WENT TO RIOT
AHHAAHHAFSAHSDHDSFSHDFAAFJKSDFAHDSJAFDSHKFSDHIFDSAGHFSD AHHAHAHA H
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On January 15 2014 11:39 onlywonderboy wrote:
I remember when I expected Monte to mathcraft everything out.
It's like you expect Wave to cast!
On January 15 2014 11:54 kongoline wrote:
so they nerf shyvs early game and dont touch her late game, yes because shyv was played top for her early wtf riot's so fucking clueless
She's super strong in lane. If you make her more vulnerable, it'll open up more picks able to go toe-to-toe with her or shut her down, thus making her late game less of a problem. Obviously with stuff like Renekton still running around it's harder.
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Wait Ghostcrawler is Riot's lead designer now? I haven't been paying any attention to League for awhile, that's fucking hilarious.
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On January 15 2014 11:34 xes wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 11:21 TheYango wrote:On January 15 2014 11:10 cLutZ wrote:
Yea, laneswaps basically turned off "counterpicks" for botlane, but it also has turned off 2 kinds of champs in toplane: weak vs. 2v1, and easily counterpicked. I think, if they are going to enforce the 2v2 meta, lategame AD Carries need serious buffs. It makes them situational champs to draft based on how the opponent drafts and it makes the champs that are good at both stable 1st/2nd picks--it doesn't "turn off" those champs because based on the bot lane picks because your opponent cannot punish everything at once. A weak 1v1 matchup can't be punished if the bot lane picks force you to 2v1, and likewise a weak 1v2 can't be punished if you have to 2v2 the enemy bot lane. It adds overall depth to the draft to allow teams to freely 2v1 and 2v2, even if it makes certain champs harder to pick early. Basically, forcibly adding restrictions will never add to more diversity in the long term, because workarounds become much stronger. Also, requesting Ketara to do the math on new Spirit Stone item. I'm assuming its weaker early and stronger later than the old pure regen version?
Forcing 2v2 also goes against the whole "we don't' want ban/pick phase to determine games", cuz it strengthens counterpicks, which by nature makes ban/pick phase much stronger by lane.
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Canada11044 Posts
On January 15 2014 11:46 IamPryda wrote:
no nid or ziggs nerfs lol gtfo
Why would Nidalee be nerfed again?
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On January 15 2014 10:25 Dusty wrote:
Most people will look at this and say that the way they are choosing to "nerf" laneswaps is a really ugly way to do it, and while I agree it looks very bad, one of the reason MANY champions are not playable in competitive is because of how badly laneswaps shut them down so I'm really interested to see what competitive teams are going to be doing with their toplaners, not to mention the fact that sunfire-visage tanks got nerfed.
Another thing that people might not be thinking about is that it allows top lane to roam without fear of their tower being taken down in a wave by some champions with high as like rengar/jax for example.
But yeah we'll see how this goes.
You could also say, that not having 2v1 limits the type of champs that are allowed to play as well.
Shit like Vayne and Kog are near impossible to play in a proper 2v2, and need 2v1's to get by. Same applies to certain supports, like Sona. Who can do okay in 2v1's.
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On January 15 2014 11:56 red_ wrote:
Wait Ghostcrawler is Riot's lead designer now? I haven't been paying any attention to League for awhile, that's fucking hilarious.
Him and Morello thar's two lead designers now. Think they announced it this morning/last night? Idk.
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Canada11044 Posts
So once the patch is live, will we have to do placement matches again?
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On January 15 2014 11:54 kongoline wrote:
so they nerf shyvs early game and dont touch her late game, yes because shyv was played top for her early wtf riot's so fucking clueless
That's a pretty narrow view. That's like saying Riot should nerf Trist, Trynd, Yi, Vayne, Kog, etc. (basically whoever you'd consider a hypercarry) just because their late game is super strong. You put out fires by extinguishing the base, not the peripheral flames.
On January 15 2014 12:08 wei2coolman wrote:
You could also say, that not having 2v1 limits the type of champs that are allowed to play as well.
Shit like Vayne and Kog are near impossible to play in a proper 2v2, and need 2v1's to get by. Same applies to certain supports, like Sona. Who can do okay in 2v1's.
Tell that to Alliance's bot lane that just beat Fnatic's bot lane pretty handedly in lane with Vayne/Thresh vs. Jinx/Leona with minimal outside help. I know it's just one case so far but champs like Vayne/Kog are not as unplayable as you say in the current meta. Supports play a huge role in which ADC is viable in champ select.
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lol the hype for Alliance made me disappointed....
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On January 15 2014 12:15 beefhamburger wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 11:54 kongoline wrote:
so they nerf shyvs early game and dont touch her late game, yes because shyv was played top for her early wtf riot's so fucking clueless That's a pretty narrow view. That's like saying Riot should nerf Trist, Trynd, Yi, Vayne, Kog, etc. (basically whoever you'd consider a hypercarry) just because their late game is super strong. You put out fires by extinguishing the base, not the peripheral flames. Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 12:08 wei2coolman wrote:
You could also say, that not having 2v1 limits the type of champs that are allowed to play as well.
Shit like Vayne and Kog are near impossible to play in a proper 2v2, and need 2v1's to get by. Same applies to certain supports, like Sona. Who can do okay in 2v1's. Tell that to Alliance's bot lane that just beat Fnatic's bot lane pretty handedly in lane with Vayne/Thresh vs. Jinx/Leona with minimal outside help. I know it's just one case so far but champs like Vayne/Kog are not as unplayable as you say in the current meta. Supports play a huge role in which ADC is viable in champ select.
I'm obviously talking about equivalent botlanes. But 2v1's definitely open up weak botlane champions, as much as it denies weak toplaners. But i'd say it's not as bad with toplaners, because in pro play, the lanes are being denied for only a couple minutes, and until they destroy the tower. As opposed to standard 2v2 lane where bad botlane combos are being punished for 10 minutes (or however long lane phase lasts).
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On January 15 2014 12:15 beefhamburger wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 11:54 kongoline wrote:
so they nerf shyvs early game and dont touch her late game, yes because shyv was played top for her early wtf riot's so fucking clueless That's a pretty narrow view. That's like saying Riot should nerf Trist, Trynd, Yi, Vayne, Kog, etc. (basically whoever you'd consider a hypercarry) just because their late game is super strong. You put out fires by extinguishing the base, not the peripheral flames. Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 12:08 wei2coolman wrote:
You could also say, that not having 2v1 limits the type of champs that are allowed to play as well.
Shit like Vayne and Kog are near impossible to play in a proper 2v2, and need 2v1's to get by. Same applies to certain supports, like Sona. Who can do okay in 2v1's. Tell that to Alliance's bot lane that just beat Fnatic's bot lane pretty handedly in lane with Vayne/Thresh vs. Jinx/Leona with minimal outside help. I know it's just one case so far but champs like Vayne/Kog are not as unplayable as you say in the current meta. Supports play a huge role in which ADC is viable in champ select.
the only person nyph handedly beat on thresh in that game was his own team
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On January 15 2014 12:37 suicideyear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 12:15 beefhamburger wrote:On January 15 2014 11:54 kongoline wrote:
so they nerf shyvs early game and dont touch her late game, yes because shyv was played top for her early wtf riot's so fucking clueless That's a pretty narrow view. That's like saying Riot should nerf Trist, Trynd, Yi, Vayne, Kog, etc. (basically whoever you'd consider a hypercarry) just because their late game is super strong. You put out fires by extinguishing the base, not the peripheral flames. On January 15 2014 12:08 wei2coolman wrote:
You could also say, that not having 2v1 limits the type of champs that are allowed to play as well.
Shit like Vayne and Kog are near impossible to play in a proper 2v2, and need 2v1's to get by. Same applies to certain supports, like Sona. Who can do okay in 2v1's. Tell that to Alliance's bot lane that just beat Fnatic's bot lane pretty handedly in lane with Vayne/Thresh vs. Jinx/Leona with minimal outside help. I know it's just one case so far but champs like Vayne/Kog are not as unplayable as you say in the current meta. Supports play a huge role in which ADC is viable in champ select. the only person nyph handedly beat on thresh in that game was his own team
I don't disagree, but when people talk about viability, they almost always mean being able to get out of laning phase in decent shape. What happens after lane is usually more reliant upon player skill as opposed to champ 'viability'. There are those champs that are useless outside of laning phase, but I'm referring to the ones that can actually have an impact on a game with a decent laning phase.
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EPT
