[Patch 3.15] Yasuo General Discussion - Page 210

On January 13 2014 10:31 Lord Tolkien wrote:
http://lol.gamepedia.com/Articles:Patch_Analysis_of_3.14

Interesting spellsy analysis, and I do largely agree with most of the points he hits.

On January 13 2014 11:11 Lord Tolkien wrote:

Biggest issue is currently item diversity and balance, given the superiority of Grail on most mid lane APs, the dominance of Ancient Golem (and utter uselessness of Wriggles), and SV/Sunfire being dominant and overtuned currently.

For supports, Talisman of Ascension and its build path is just too good compared to the other support item choices, and is followed by Crucible.

I'd like to emphasize his point on item balance currently.


The support pool has largely moved away from the "dedicated" supports like Sona, Janna (in particular), and Lulu, as well as APish supports like Zyra, in favor of the current Leona/Thresh/Annie support trinity. Mostly a FotM pick-rate change over a significant pool change.

It'll likely change once Annie gets some early stun duration nerfs and passive scaling (needed tbh) and people recognize how good Morg support is against Leona/Thresh if you play it competently.

On January 13 2014 11:27 cLutZ wrote:


To address this somewhat backwards. Zyra got nerfed significantly, and the nerf was really bad against those 3 champs (range nerfs, poke nerfs, and CDR nerfs vs. champs that can all in you at any time? no thanks).

What I don't want to see, is your situation where a Morgana/Leona/Thresh meta evolves (with some supports strong against morgana also) where its basically a Rock-Paper-Scissors botlane for supports. Support was actually really healthy in S3, except for the no-items-ward-heavy meta if you didn't like that.

Finally, they need to make all the support GP5 items generate gold in the same way, and give actives of the same power if they want to fix that. Talisman is the best, because it is the only one that gives you gold after the laning phase, and it has the best active. I don't see the other 2 methods of generating gold (Csing and aaing enemy champs) keeping up with the nearby minion kill method of gold generation without creating extremely OP fringe cases for those methods (ala release Targons).

And top lane has too many problems for me to comment on those 2 items.

On January 13 2014 11:41 Lord Tolkien wrote:

If Morgana evolves into the meta as a major pick, then you open up ranged supports greatly. Morgana generally fares poorly against range supports, while excelling against melee supports. If Morg support becomes a "meta" thing, it mostly works to cripple the current meta in favor of melee supports by offering a very viable counterpick to Leo/Thresh. The Annie nerfs will help (given she does shine abit too much against current ranged supports), but largely I'd be optimistic about the diversity of support picks.

The ranged supports got nerfs in light of new scaling and gold income, which in hindsight wasn't necessary/was heavyhanded. They were understandable given how stronk those supports were/are on non-SR maps when scaling with gold, however. Again, Sona true #1 op on ARAMs. Sheen-Chalice-Lichbane, ???, profit


Regarding the other two support items, Spellthiefs is the only one of the three that needs a passive rework or balance overhaul. Targon's is fairly strong and decent for gold gen past the lane phase, the issue currently is that Talisman of Ascension's active DRAMATICALLY trumps either Face of the Mountain or Shard of True Ice. Like, it's that much better. Balancing needed for that.

Regarding top lane meta, I would put health relics (well, they're really more mana relics) up top. Not even joking.

On January 13 2014 05:14 wei2coolman wrote:

Problem is getting to 5 items.
Eve needs DFG+Voidstaff to get to that point, without their ADC getting defensive item before that.
That's so much gold required by Eve, it's pretty hard to get to that point, before ADC's pick up GA/Banshee/etc.
IMO her real strength is just vision requirements to deal with her well.

On January 13 2014 11:59 Scip wrote:
Eve has things going for her lategame, a lot of AoE burst+some soft CC, the problem is that there is a lot of stuff she doesn't provide (initiation, tankiness, hard CC) that you might want from a jungler, but she has them dmges and earlygame and midgame. I think she's also the fastest jungler in the game early on, or at least really close to that.

On January 13 2014 11:45 Slusher wrote:
I've started picking Karma in response to Annie, I really like it, she can't really trade with Karma Q without blowing her stun. This might not work so well in competitive play but in solo q if the adc isn't close enough to annie to follow up on her stun just throw a Q in her face and she has no choice but to either eat it or lose her stun charge, freeing you up to toy with her ad a bit.

would love to hear from some other people giving it a try.

On January 13 2014 11:22 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Sona at least retains her niche of being the absolute #1 most OP Aram champion in existence.

On January 13 2014 11:22 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Sona at least retains her niche of being the absolute #1 most OP Aram champion in existence.

On January 13 2014 13:00 GolemMadness wrote:


What about Nidalee?!

On January 13 2014 13:05 Goumindong wrote:

Nidalee isn't even tier 1. Ziggs, Xerath, alistar, Ashe, jayce, Varus, karma, lux, fiddlesticks, viktor, twisted fate, Zyra, sivir, and sona are all better.

On January 13 2014 13:31 GolemMadness wrote:


I don't play much ARAM, but TF? Really?

On January 13 2014 13:37 Alaric wrote:
I wouldn't rank Viktor tier1 at all. Super long cd ult compared to most for these skirmishes, take a bunch of level to take off (level 6+ and augment), no blue buff to help his mana problems and if you get a chalice then it delays his relevance even more... it's super easy to abuse him. He's so weak in a straight-up fight without his ult that even if you lose a 5v5, just bumrush them as soon as everyone is up, he won't have his ult and they'll have a 4.5v5 at best.

On January 13 2014 13:37 Alaric wrote:
I wouldn't rank Viktor tier1 at all. Super long cd ult compared to most for these skirmishes, take a bunch of level to take off (level 6+ and augment), no blue buff to help his mana problems and if you get a chalice then it delays his relevance even more... it's super easy to abuse him. He's so weak in a straight-up fight without his ult that even if you lose a 5v5, just bumrush them as soon as everyone is back up, he won't have his ult and they'll have a 4.5v5 at best.