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On January 13 2014 06:16 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 06:13 LaNague wrote:
even in OGN winter the pink wards survive for over 10 mins, even weeks after trounament play..
So yeah, they are pretty good. The thing I most enjoy about pink wards at pro level atm is that it's like a never ending mind game, you gotta always vary pink locations or else someone will just go to the spot and take it then some people just put it in the cliche places of the two river brushes and no one checks it because it's supposed to be obvious.
No. Pinks survive because they're defensible.
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On January 13 2014 06:14 Doctorbeat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 06:11 Gahlo wrote:On January 13 2014 06:08 Doctorbeat wrote:On January 13 2014 06:05 AsnSensation wrote:On January 13 2014 05:33 Doctorbeat wrote:On January 13 2014 05:13 AsnSensation wrote:
Eve is a good jungler and probably belongs to tier 1 due to the low amount of wards people usually pick up early game and lower than Plat noone really buys pinks consistently, but I wouldn't consider her firstpick/ban metarial. Gold V here and I buy pinks every game. They're so super good, especially in lower divisions. Noone checks the river brushes or other good spots. But you are TL Hipster Elite! Actually Screw my Statement SoloQ in general buys way too few pinks! Watching OGN is enough to see how godly pinks are. Wards that don't expire? Means I only have to pay 100g once instead of 75g every couple of minutes? Yeah sounds good. It's so hilarious to see people here in my Gold V not attackmoving whilst going through river. They always miss or run through the river brush, with my pink in it. You'd be surprised how many people don't watch OGN. Their loss. It's like watching Major League Soccer but not Champions League/World Cup.
Well, going from a 5-8 hour time difference to a 13-16 hour time difference is a hefty jump in availability.
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Considering there are free vods on youtube I wouldn't really agree.
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On January 13 2014 06:53 nafta wrote:
Considering there are free vods on youtube I wouldn't really agree.
Hmm? I thought you have to pay for VoDs for OGN?
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On January 13 2014 05:14 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 04:31 Fildun wrote:On January 13 2014 03:52 Goumindong wrote:On January 12 2014 17:22 Gahlo wrote:
Nightblu3 making a jungle tierlist while in que, if anybody cares. He put eve in tier 1. I just don't understand that. Sure she is immune to greens and can see pinks but she has no lategame presence and now every game makes it to lategame. At full build or 5 item Eve vs 6 item ADC you can oneshot the ADC faster than Zed. You also get a free ticket to their backline, and her ult is AoE %hp damage to everybody. I'm sorry, but I don't see this whole "no lategame presence" thing. Problem is getting to 5 items. Eve needs DFG+Voidstaff to get to that point, without their ADC getting defensive item before that. That's so much gold required by Eve, it's pretty hard to get to that point, before ADC's pick up GA/Banshee/etc. IMO her real strength is just vision requirements to deal with her well.
Hmmm, as soon as you get SotSW, DFG and sorcs (and maybe haunting guise) you bring them to 10% (excluding heals and barrier) and most teams have either another diver or some random AoE damage.
I mean yes, people who do stuff like SotSW into sorcs into Liandrys have no mid or lategame impact, but that's the build, and not the champion.
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On January 13 2014 07:09 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 06:53 nafta wrote:
Considering there are free vods on youtube I wouldn't really agree. Hmm? I thought you have to pay for VoDs for OGN?
evil pirates
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On January 13 2014 07:09 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 06:53 nafta wrote:
Considering there are free vods on youtube I wouldn't really agree. Hmm? I thought you have to pay for VoDs for OGN?
This is the internet.
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On January 13 2014 06:50 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 06:16 Fusilero wrote:On January 13 2014 06:13 LaNague wrote:
even in OGN winter the pink wards survive for over 10 mins, even weeks after trounament play..
So yeah, they are pretty good. The thing I most enjoy about pink wards at pro level atm is that it's like a never ending mind game, you gotta always vary pink locations or else someone will just go to the spot and take it then some people just put it in the cliche places of the two river brushes and no one checks it because it's supposed to be obvious. No. Pinks survive because they're defensible.
Both reasons apply.
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On January 13 2014 07:27 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 07:09 wei2coolman wrote:On January 13 2014 06:53 nafta wrote:
Considering there are free vods on youtube I wouldn't really agree. Hmm? I thought you have to pay for VoDs for OGN? This is the internet.
That lacks honor. Forgo sleep and watch OGN games live as it is a wonderful experience!
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On January 13 2014 08:34 Parnage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 07:27 nafta wrote:On January 13 2014 07:09 wei2coolman wrote:On January 13 2014 06:53 nafta wrote:
Considering there are free vods on youtube I wouldn't really agree. Hmm? I thought you have to pay for VoDs for OGN? This is the internet. That lacks honor. Forgo sleep and watch OGN games live as it is a wonderful experience!
Sleep is easy to miss.Not graduating due to absence is rather shitty doe :D.
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On January 13 2014 07:27 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 07:09 wei2coolman wrote:On January 13 2014 06:53 nafta wrote:
Considering there are free vods on youtube I wouldn't really agree. Hmm? I thought you have to pay for VoDs for OGN? This is the internet.
Jeez, now that you've tempted me to look. Now I know how to get access to HD OGN.
Time to watch Ozone vs Shield in glorious HD.
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wowo, reflections with yellowstar, fnatic 0-30 in scrims vs skt, that's gotta be rough.
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confirms my suspicion that amount of gold for jungler didn't change too significantly, the vision limitation being the main reason why junglers seem to have more gold.
I'm curious though for support how the increased gold breakup works in regards to assist streak mechanics vs gp10 item changes.
On January 13 2014 10:36 Shiznick wrote:
wowo, reflections with yellowstar, fnatic 0-30 in scrims vs skt, that's gotta be rough.
5koreans > 1french korean + 4europeans.
are you really surprised?
plus, fnatic known for not trying in scrims.
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So:
1. Supports buy items now, but they all still build the same "support" items, and still dont' buy "carry" items.
2. Junglers don't farm more, they just get more free gold. (Actually amazing considering the Smite Changes + Wight means you always should be close to a camp you can easily kill).
3. Longer games, slower first blood (probably just people recognizing 3v1 dives better and just giving up turret).
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There is a lot missing i think. He aims to talk about how the game changed, for example, for supports, but only addresses gold and items. The real important aspect, namely how the changes influenced the viable champion pool is not mentioned and analyzed at all. Everyone can see that supports have more gold now and most buy the talisman. But we also can see that Annie became first pick/ban potential, Leone got a boost and Sona became pretty much unplayable. I'd like to see some analysis why that happened, how (if) it relates to the support changes and why all of the new ap utility ratios do not see any play. Using some numbers to say what is played right now is just not enough for an in-depth analysis.
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I don't know where you get the notion that Sona isn't played anymore. She's still picked, just not as high as priority.
Annie was always strong, if anything her potential was finally being revealed by Tabe to the world. Same applies to Leona, was used to great effect by yolostar. The actual pool of champions for support haven't changed significantly, the pool is pretty much the same. The pick percentages might have changed a little bit. The only support that has actually seen play that wasn't seeing play pre3.14 is Karma.
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On January 13 2014 10:48 cLutZ wrote:So: 1. Supports buy items now, but they all still build the same "support" items, and still dont' buy "carry" items. 2. Junglers don't farm more, they just get more free gold. (Actually amazing considering the Smite Changes + Wight means you always should be close to a camp you can easily kill). 3. Longer games, slower first blood (probably just people recognizing 3v1 dives better and just giving up turret).
Biggest issue is currently item diversity and balance, given the superiority of Grail on most mid lane APs, the dominance of Ancient Golem (and utter uselessness of Wriggles), and SV/Sunfire being dominant and overtuned currently.
For supports, Talisman of Ascension and its build path is just too good compared to the other support item choices, and is followed by Crucible.
I'd like to emphasize his point on item balance currently.
The support pool has largely moved away from the "dedicated" supports like Sona, Janna (in particular), and Lulu, as well as APish supports like Zyra, in favor of the current Leona/Thresh/Annie support trinity. Mostly a FotM pick-rate change over a significant pool change.
It'll likely change once Annie gets some early stun duration nerfs and passive scaling (needed tbh) and people recognize how good Morg support is against Leona/Thresh if you play it competently.
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On January 13 2014 10:54 wei2coolman wrote:
I don't know where you get the notion that Sona isn't played anymore. She's still picked, just not as high as priority.
Annie was always strong, if anything her potential was finally being revealed by Tabe to the world. Same applies to Leona, was used to great effect by yolostar. The actual pool of champions for support haven't changed significantly, the pool is pretty much the same. The pick percentages might have changed a little bit. The only support that has actually seen play that wasn't seeing play pre3.14 is Karma.
That is 100% not true. Sure you can play sona or Janna but the other supports are a lot stronger now and it's almost entirely due to the gold and itemization changes
1) gold changes are nearly entirely from assist gold. You can look at the gold your gold item generates in the late game and you will find that it's not all that much higher than it was for season 3. 500 more gold over the course of a match doesn't account for the gold increase.
2) AP scaling supports who aren't full mages or can't build tanky got hosed by this increase in gold. Whereas prior their scaling could be abused by a single item since the tanky supports wouldn't really get that tanky anyway the marginal value of AP items compared to tank items is much lower. This is especially true once you have purchased your initial sight stone and talisman. Trying to catch up and be effective as a utility Mage against people building their second or third big defensive item and/or against champions with large defensive steroids building their first defensive item just isn't effective. And because you have to get a lot of pen now for abilities to be effective due to the prevalence of tanks hard scaling itself isn't even that effective.
3) this was exacerbated by the changes the utility mages had which moved much of their power from base values to scaling values. A utility Mage support builds 3k gold worth of items then starts to work on their scaling items but they have to get low ap pen items if they want to do any damage anyway.
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EPT
atch_Analysis_of_3.14
