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On December 28 2013 20:20 GolemMadness wrote:
Can someone shed some insight as to why Viktor's such an incredibly unpopular champion? The only thing I can think of is that his E's not really intuitive to aim, so a lot of people give up trying to play him because they don't realise you need to flcik it. Otherwise how can he be the 4th least popular champion in the game?
Because people QQ about the hexcore being required hard, despite the fact that if it was an option they'd be getting it anyway.
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On December 28 2013 20:30 JonGalt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2013 20:20 GolemMadness wrote:
Can someone shed some insight as to why Viktor's such an incredibly unpopular champion? The only thing I can think of is that his E's not really intuitive to aim, so a lot of people give up trying to play him because they don't realise you need to flcik it. Otherwise how can he be the 4th least popular champion in the game? Alaric should be coming in here with a 12 page paper about how his ult cd is still 120, high mana, the silence is impossible to control, his mid game power spike is mitigated due to everyone reaching late game faster, etc. I've noticed asking why Viktor isn't played is basically a bat-call, but for Alaric.
It's actually been buffed to a flat 100 mana, which I find a bit absurd. Sure 125/175/225 was pretty steep on top of his E, but now it costs less than said E despite being an ult. ._.
And I often quote Annie as being another 120s cd ult champ, yeah.
Thing is, Viktor can't itemise mana regen as well as other champions (someone quoted Lux, her absurd base damage and cd on ult make it very easy for her to start with grail and still clear super well), or CDR for that matter, and he's got the same weaknesses as Orianna or Lux to mobile champions, without being as safe as them (W mostly useless against those who can kill you in the ~2s it takes to setup and stun, given that you must wait for them to jump you then drop it on top of yourself or they'll dodge it).
He's actually rather good versus Fizz (Q helps a bunch at early levels, and W is easier to use than vs most mobile champions because Fizz loses a bunch of damage if he has to burn E to get in range or get out) and [personal experience here] can punish Ahri pretty hard despite her being naturally advantaged in the match-up, but stuff like Zed utterly shits on him for example (he outpushes him from level 2 and can very easily zone him; it may be somewhat mitigated since the W speed nerf, but I haven't played the match-up since then), while he can't do much to champions with longer range like Lux, Syndra, Orianna, etc. once they get the mana to clear with spells (no chalice/tear -> if they push he has to E to push and can't afford harassing them with it unless they somehow step into the wave).
He also struggles versus shield champions (Lux unkillable bar derping, Diana outright wins) because E and R have periodic damage/DoT components which let people reactively shield themselves.
His range isn't good enough to reach squishies in the late game ('cept if you're playing against Sivir obviously) without exposing himself, while his damage output isn't consistently high enough to deal with the frontline/bruisers, especially when stuff like Nasus and Renekton were popular (now you've got Shyvana and Mundo in the toplane, but works all the same from the jungle).
It's not that he doesn't have the damage to kill stuff, but he'll never kill bruisers even by burning his ult, and he needs to keep it for once the squishies get in range. On the other hand he wants to use it early to get the most out of the 7 seconds of periodic damage. So his late game can get awkward.
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Want an alaric wall of pain ? Talk about viktor
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On December 28 2013 23:38 RouaF wrote:
Want an alaric wall of pain ? Talk about viktor
Decent thing to wake up to read I guess. Reading QQ while ill makes you feel better about yourself.
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viktor just needs to do what all the low range, low mobility APs do. go bot lane and play support.
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On December 29 2013 00:10 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2013 23:38 RouaF wrote:
Want an alaric wall of pain ? Talk about viktor Decent thing to wake up to read I guess. Reading QQ while ill makes you feel better about yourself.
At this point it's just acquired response. x)
I'm not saying Viktor's unplayable or anything, they asked why he's not popular, I answer. I mean, even if he had some semblance of popularity, the fact that he's been weak to most FotM or hard to fit into teamcomps (especially assassin-y ones considering his range) can easily explain why people shy away from him.
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On December 28 2013 22:32 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2013 20:20 GolemMadness wrote:
Can someone shed some insight as to why Viktor's such an incredibly unpopular champion? The only thing I can think of is that his E's not really intuitive to aim, so a lot of people give up trying to play him because they don't realise you need to flcik it. Otherwise how can he be the 4th least popular champion in the game? Because people QQ about the hexcore being required hard, despite the fact that if it was an option they'd be getting it anyway.
well augment death gives what 90 ap? thats not bad at all imo, esp with the 30% extra lazer beam damage iirc.
really not a super dead end item like they say i think
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On December 29 2013 00:45 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2013 22:32 Gahlo wrote:On December 28 2013 20:20 GolemMadness wrote:
Can someone shed some insight as to why Viktor's such an incredibly unpopular champion? The only thing I can think of is that his E's not really intuitive to aim, so a lot of people give up trying to play him because they don't realise you need to flcik it. Otherwise how can he be the 4th least popular champion in the game? Because people QQ about the hexcore being required hard, despite the fact that if it was an option they'd be getting it anyway. well augment death gives what 90 ap? thats not bad at all imo, esp with the 30% extra lazer beam damage iirc. really not a super dead end item like they say i think
Augment: Death vs Zhonyas (usual 6th slot defensive item) or somesuch.
It's no contest there, unfortunately. It hits slot inefficiency in the late-late game, but it's pretty damn cost effective before (midgame wise).
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Well on average you get rabadon/athene/void staff/zhonya/boots so not really an issue.Viktor's problem is he has low range on his burst/cc and since he isn't mobile without flash he just can't get to the squishies and his damage isn't high enough to kill the tanks.
Now we could argue that the support could engage and viktor would just have to followup but other champs can do the same better so other than hipster factor not really much left and I doubt the people who just enjoy the champ care if he good or not.
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On December 28 2013 21:10 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2013 20:34 Nytefish wrote:
He wasn't OP at release and is more quirky and clunky than cool character-design-wise. Look at the other unpopular picks, if male and not cool, or female and not hot, then not picked. Not cool? HE SHOOTS LASERS AT PEOPLE.
Well technically he shoots lasers into the ground, and then if you're lucky happens to come across a person.
as opposed to "pew pew" lazer gunz.
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Viktor does not have a 6th slot...
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none of the aoe mages can kill squishies/bruisers by their own in a teamfgiht. the whole idea of aoe is to deal as much overall damage as possible so assassins/bruisers/adc can clean the mess up.
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On December 29 2013 02:56 clickrush wrote:
none of the aoe mages can kill squishies/bruisers by their own in a teamfgiht. the whole idea of aoe is to deal as much overall damage as possible so assassins/bruisers/adc can clean the mess up.
Annie can.
Except she can do it as a support.
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Has there been anything recently about the Teambuilder thing they were doing on PBE and when it's gonna be released?
I hope it wasn't cancelled.
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Playing gold 1, its crazy how many adc's just openly run into lane thinking you wont be aggressive towards them. They just think it will be a farm fest till lvl 3 or so. NOPE, just auto auto and land a spell and boom lane control
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They don't rely on a 600 cast range periodic damage spell (that you need to be alive and non-cc'd to redirect because it's dumb as fuck) with a flat 120s cd.
I mean, you've got exceptions, but then it's stuff like Kennen or Karthus who are entirely different (Kennen is flash-reliant too and has the bonus of AoE cc).
Viktor is also more mana-hungry than champs like Brand, Orianna, Annie, etc. and can't itemise like them (or Lux) so while his poke is still good in terms of damage he really wants blue (also CDR for his ult; compare to Lux, Ziggs, etc. with grail and/or blue buff, 120s is something like 40 seconds during which they have ult and he doesn't at level 11, minimum, it's huge for dragon fights and stuff).
Take his passive away from Brand and his poke isn't that good for example.
Ahri is comparatively stronger (despite being supposed to be an assassin) but that's because Charm is super good.
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On December 29 2013 04:03 krndandaman wrote:
im still amazed a 1-8 riven with same farm as me and our team being 2 drags, 5 towers up, can 1v1 me as a jax.
I got 1 level on her, im 5-4.
I got trinity force, ninjatabi, giants belt, wardens mail.
she has hydra, mobility boots, and chainvest.
granted, she used ignite and I didn't and I activated ult at half health, but I barely won a duel with both starting full health with me having 50 HP left. I didn't really misplay severely or anything. ridiculous.
hard to believe it, im pretty sure jax dumpsters riven
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On December 29 2013 04:03 krndandaman wrote:
im still amazed a 1-8 riven with same farm as me and our team being 2 drags, 5 towers up, can 1v1 me as a jax.
I got 1 level on her, im 5-4.
I got trinity force, ninjatabi, giants belt, wardens mail.
she has hydra, mobility boots, and chainvest.
granted, she used ignite and I didn't and I activated ult at half health, but I barely won a duel with both starting full health with me having 50 HP left. I didn't really misplay severely or anything. ridiculous.
I didn't really misplay severely or anything
she used ignite and I didn't and I activated ult at half health
im still amazed a 1-8 riven with same farm as me and our team being 2 drags, 5 towers up, can 1v1 me as a jax.
me having 50 HP left
so to sum up. no?
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played Viktor because of this thread, god damn his W stun is way better than I had thought, the nature of it makes it play out like a 2+ second stun if they make any attempt to run.
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EPT
