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On December 05 2013 06:45 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 06:38 mr_tolkien wrote:On December 05 2013 06:32 nojitosunrise wrote:On December 05 2013 06:29 ZeromuS wrote:On December 05 2013 06:24 nojitosunrise wrote:On December 05 2013 06:21 Sn0_Man wrote:On December 05 2013 06:18 nojitosunrise wrote:
Riot is the only one to make competitive gaming really work. ... You are not very well informed. What other competitive gaming scene offers the same financial security as Riot + LoL? If by financial security you mean hoping to never fall out of the LCS system. BW in the past, to a certain extent SC2 did and still does offer security (albeit to a smaller number of people). DotA. WC3 (for some players). What you seem to not be realising is that RIOT is a closed system. You are very secure when you are in it, but only while you are in it. The other esports titles are much more open you can be secure without being directly in the system via team sponsorships etc. Only a few LCS teams could operate if they fell out of LCS and only due to their strong brand (TSM as an example) much the same way EG can make Fighting Games financially stable for people like Jwonggg. Riot's system is a proven system. Look at MTG's pro circuit which is completely controlled by wizards of the coast. It works and it doesn't suffer many of the problems that "eSports" does. StarCity opens are a pretty big part of the cake too though. MTG is an example of a system that is completely different from LCS and riot in general. Big names get paid appearance fees to attend events, and they certainly aren't signing non-compete contracts. Example: Brian Kibler. Is a designer for a rival Card game. Still gets paid by WotC to show up at Pro Tours and Grand Prixs. He also streams whatever the fuck he wants.
Edit Fuck quoted didnt edit 
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I'm having a discussion with a lawyer friend right now about this whole debacle, and basically what he's telling me is that Riot is allowed to do this, it's totally legit, and this exact sort of thing is completely normal for any professional sports organization.
He also said that the big part of it for Riot is likely that since Twitch pays the streamers as well, if they stream Hearthstone they're technically being paid to play Hearthstone, which would be in violation of their contract with Riot since Riot obviously wants them to only be paid to play LoL.
Basically, and I quote from him:
"People seem to be acting like this is a casual relationship. No, it's a job."
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On December 05 2013 06:48 Ketara wrote:
I'm having a discussion with a lawyer friend right now about this whole debacle, and basically what he's telling me is that Riot is allowed to do this, it's totally legit, and this exact sort of thing is completely normal for any professional sports organization.
He also said that the big part of it for Riot is likely that since Twitch pays the streamers as well, if they stream Hearthstone they're technically being paid to play Hearthstone, which would be in violation of their contract with Riot since Riot obviously wants them to only be paid to play LoL.
Basically, and I quote from him:
"People seem to be acting like this is a casual relationship. No, it's a job."
i don't think anyone is saying "riot isn't allowed to do this" the whole argument is that its bad/wrong to do so and will have more negative consequences than positive.
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Canada13410 Posts
On December 05 2013 06:48 Ketara wrote:
I'm having a discussion with a lawyer friend right now about this whole debacle, and basically what he's telling me is that Riot is allowed to do this, it's totally legit, and this exact sort of thing is completely normal for any professional sports organization.
He also said that the big part of it for Riot is likely that since Twitch pays the streamers as well, if they stream Hearthstone they're technically being paid to play Hearthstone, which would be in violation of their contract with Riot since Riot obviously wants them to only be paid to play LoL.
Basically, and I quote from him:
"People seem to be acting like this is a casual relationship. No, it's a job."
Yeah but they aren't being paid to play LoL, they are being paid to play in the LCS is my understanding. If the full contract states they are being paid to play LoL then I am totally ok with this contract.
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United States2503 Posts
On December 05 2013 06:48 Ketara wrote:
I'm having a discussion with a lawyer friend right now about this whole debacle, and basically what he's telling me is that Riot is allowed to do this, it's totally legit, and this exact sort of thing is completely normal for any professional sports organization.
He also said that the big part of it for Riot is likely that since Twitch pays the streamers as well, if they stream Hearthstone they're technically being paid to play Hearthstone, which would be in violation of their contract with Riot since Riot obviously wants them to only be paid to play LoL.
Basically, and I quote from him:
"People seem to be acting like this is a casual relationship. No, it's a job."
Yeah, and I think this is where we get to the point that I was talking about. Once people realize that this is a legal and mostly normal arrangement, then we can get to the actually relevant part of this whole conversation: as spectators of LoL streams, is this an arrangement that we are happy with?
And the clear answer to that is no. LoL streams are incredibly more tedious without players having interesting games to stream during queue. MMOs are not that, Super Meat Boy was arguably not that. Hearthstone is a perfect type of filler game, though. I love to watch streams now that use Hearthstone as a filler because there is no "down" time. I can roll right from LoL to HS to LoL. Excellent as a viewer.
Therefore, I understand Riot has a right to do this, but I hope as a spectator they reconsider their policy for the good of the streaming scene.
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On December 05 2013 06:17 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 06:14 AsnSensation wrote:
Hmm I see where Riot is coming from but it's a bit weird that Pros won't even be able to stream hearthstone for Q times.
General oddone still has his civilization V haha. That's why I don't see why people think it's a huge deal. Negating a slippery slope argument... there are thousands and thousands of games you can still play. Or, conversely, these players can still play it just not display it on the screen as they play or if they really want, choose to play it and not stream. Too many jimmies being rustled over such a small "problem."
ya they can also just play their shit on a second monitor.
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There's also the fact that to be a competitive organization, you basically HAVE to participate in LCS and you HAVE to take Riot's money. There is no two ways about it.
The only way to be a legitimate professional League of Legends player is to be employed by Riot.
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On December 05 2013 06:53 AsnSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 06:17 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On December 05 2013 06:14 AsnSensation wrote:
Hmm I see where Riot is coming from but it's a bit weird that Pros won't even be able to stream hearthstone for Q times.
General oddone still has his civilization V haha. That's why I don't see why people think it's a huge deal. Negating a slippery slope argument... there are thousands and thousands of games you can still play. Or, conversely, these players can still play it just not display it on the screen as they play or if they really want, choose to play it and not stream. Too many jimmies being rustled over such a small "problem." ya they can also just play their shit on a second monitor.
and then the stream experience goes into the shitter as the streamer sits there doing something you can't see(hear?) for 10 minutes or whatever.
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On December 05 2013 06:54 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 06:53 AsnSensation wrote:On December 05 2013 06:17 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On December 05 2013 06:14 AsnSensation wrote:
Hmm I see where Riot is coming from but it's a bit weird that Pros won't even be able to stream hearthstone for Q times.
General oddone still has his civilization V haha. That's why I don't see why people think it's a huge deal. Negating a slippery slope argument... there are thousands and thousands of games you can still play. Or, conversely, these players can still play it just not display it on the screen as they play or if they really want, choose to play it and not stream. Too many jimmies being rustled over such a small "problem." ya they can also just play their shit on a second monitor. and then the stream experience goes into the shitter as the streamer sits there doing something you can't see(hear?) for 10 minutes or whatever.
well personally I don't watch the streamers when they aren't ingame anyway, but I just read the rest of your guys' posts (damn you write a lot today!) and including Saint's statement and we should prolly just wait and see how this turns out 
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lets be honest, the LCS players dont generate nearly enough revenue to pay for their contracts. And that doesnt even include the production.
The whole esports thing is sponsored heavily by riot and is advertisement for them.
So of course they dont want people to publicly play other online games.
What do you think coca cola has in their contracts for celebrity that advertise their products? YOu think they can drink a pepsi on TV?
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On December 05 2013 06:58 LaNague wrote:
lets be honest, the LCS players dont generate nearly enough revenue to pay for their contracts. And that doesnt even include the production.
The whole esports thing is sponsored heavily by riot and is advertisement for them.
So of course they dont want people to publicly play other online games.
What do you think coca cola has in their contracts for celebrity that advertise their products? YOu think they can drink a pepsi on TV?
the millions a celebrity gets for an endorsement deal isn't the same compensation that an LCS player gets.
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United States2503 Posts
On December 05 2013 07:02 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 06:58 LaNague wrote:
lets be honest, the LCS players dont generate nearly enough revenue to pay for their contracts. And that doesnt even include the production.
The whole esports thing is sponsored heavily by riot and is advertisement for them.
So of course they dont want people to publicly play other online games.
What do you think coca cola has in their contracts for celebrity that advertise their products? YOu think they can drink a pepsi on TV? the millions a celebrity gets for an endorsement deal isn't the same compensation that an LCS player gets.
Neither is the publicity that Riot gets from LCS players relative that which major brands get from major pro athletes. What's your point?
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United States15536 Posts
On December 05 2013 06:58 LaNague wrote:
lets be honest, the LCS players dont generate nearly enough revenue to pay for their contracts. And that doesnt even include the production.
The whole esports thing is sponsored heavily by riot and is advertisement for them.
So of course they dont want people to publicly play other online games.
What do you think coca cola has in their contracts for celebrity that advertise their products? YOu think they can drink a pepsi on TV?
Also, as Yango has mentioned, if a celebrity has a contract they don't like, they can negotiate or (worst case) find a different sponsor. LCS players can't do that because there's only one game in town.
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On December 05 2013 07:03 Takkara wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 07:02 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 05 2013 06:58 LaNague wrote:
lets be honest, the LCS players dont generate nearly enough revenue to pay for their contracts. And that doesnt even include the production.
The whole esports thing is sponsored heavily by riot and is advertisement for them.
So of course they dont want people to publicly play other online games.
What do you think coca cola has in their contracts for celebrity that advertise their products? YOu think they can drink a pepsi on TV? the millions a celebrity gets for an endorsement deal isn't the same compensation that an LCS player gets. Neither is the publicity that Riot gets from LCS players relative that which major brands get from major pro athletes. What's your point?
does a celebrity endorsement reach over 1000 times as many people as LCS? if millions watch LCS i doubt it.
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United States2503 Posts
On December 05 2013 07:08 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 07:03 Takkara wrote:On December 05 2013 07:02 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 05 2013 06:58 LaNague wrote:
lets be honest, the LCS players dont generate nearly enough revenue to pay for their contracts. And that doesnt even include the production.
The whole esports thing is sponsored heavily by riot and is advertisement for them.
So of course they dont want people to publicly play other online games.
What do you think coca cola has in their contracts for celebrity that advertise their products? YOu think they can drink a pepsi on TV? the millions a celebrity gets for an endorsement deal isn't the same compensation that an LCS player gets. Neither is the publicity that Riot gets from LCS players relative that which major brands get from major pro athletes. What's your point? does a celebrity endorsement reach over 1000 times as many people as LCS? if millions watch LCS i doubt it.
Ask these guys: http://www.qscores.com/ They are the ones that essentially determine that. I think it's almost impossible to just casually math out how much exposure an LCS player gives Riot over what an NFL or NBA player gives to Nike.
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On December 05 2013 07:04 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 06:58 LaNague wrote:
lets be honest, the LCS players dont generate nearly enough revenue to pay for their contracts. And that doesnt even include the production.
The whole esports thing is sponsored heavily by riot and is advertisement for them.
So of course they dont want people to publicly play other online games.
What do you think coca cola has in their contracts for celebrity that advertise their products? YOu think they can drink a pepsi on TV? Also, as Yango has mentioned, if a celebrity has a contract they don't like, they can negotiate or (worst case) find a different sponsor. LCS players can't do that because there's only one game in town.
Why are we assuming that teams can't negotiate their contract? No one has ever said that their contracts were non-negotiable.
However, yes if you want to be a pro LoL player you have to be in the LCS or go to another region.
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On December 05 2013 07:08 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 07:03 Takkara wrote:On December 05 2013 07:02 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 05 2013 06:58 LaNague wrote:
lets be honest, the LCS players dont generate nearly enough revenue to pay for their contracts. And that doesnt even include the production.
The whole esports thing is sponsored heavily by riot and is advertisement for them.
So of course they dont want people to publicly play other online games.
What do you think coca cola has in their contracts for celebrity that advertise their products? YOu think they can drink a pepsi on TV? the millions a celebrity gets for an endorsement deal isn't the same compensation that an LCS player gets. Neither is the publicity that Riot gets from LCS players relative that which major brands get from major pro athletes. What's your point? does a celebrity endorsement reach over 1000 times as many people as LCS? if millions watch LCS i doubt it.
for the purpose of riots PR, LCs players are completely interchangeable. One doesnt want to play anymore? NEXT, there are thousands waiting for a spot. There is nothing special about LCS players, they are kids playing games.
This is not the case for tier 1 celebrities, they allready bring millions of fans, their brand recognition and you cant just get someone you need whenever you want.
So of course they get more money....
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Baa?21245 Posts
On December 05 2013 07:04 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 06:58 LaNague wrote:
lets be honest, the LCS players dont generate nearly enough revenue to pay for their contracts. And that doesnt even include the production.
The whole esports thing is sponsored heavily by riot and is advertisement for them.
So of course they dont want people to publicly play other online games.
What do you think coca cola has in their contracts for celebrity that advertise their products? YOu think they can drink a pepsi on TV? Also, as Yango has mentioned, if a celebrity has a contract they don't like, they can negotiate or (worst case) find a different sponsor. LCS players can't do that because there's only one game in town.
There's only one game in town if you want to play League of Legends because League of Legends is one game. I don't really see your point here @_@
If you wan't to make your living by playing League of Legends, I see nothing unreasonable with adhering to the rules set by the company that makes League of Legends, however unreasonable you may think they are.
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On December 05 2013 06:58 LaNague wrote:
lets be honest, the LCS players dont generate nearly enough revenue to pay for their contracts. And that doesnt even include the production.
The whole esports thing is sponsored heavily by riot and is advertisement for them.
So of course they dont want people to publicly play other online games.
What do you think coca cola has in their contracts for celebrity that advertise their products? YOu think they can drink a pepsi on TV?
There is nothing that really makes LoL a direct competitor to DotA (or Hearthstone, etc.), which is the problem I have with this whole debacle. You can buy your Popstar Ahri skin AND your Cat Drow Ranger gear and a booster pack in Hearthstone. One does not preclude getting the other one.
Riot is being anti-competitive in an industry that is not directly competitive. As a fan of LoL and other games, it is harder to support LoL when they are taking an aggressive stance and trying to push out other games that I also enjoy.
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Guys dw, you can still stream 300 heroes. Thats the only thing that matters
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EPT
