EPTW mana cost @ lvl 5 is also crazy. There is a lot of games where I would love to max W first in lane (mainly top) but the high mana costs make it a very big risk to do so.
[Patch 3.14] PreSeason 4 General Discussion - Page 129
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
W mana cost @ lvl 5 is also crazy. There is a lot of games where I would love to max W first in lane (mainly top) but the high mana costs make it a very big risk to do so. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On December 04 2013 09:49 TheYango wrote: What do you mean "these days"? The radius never changed, the only thing that changed about E was the pull distance for targets that were on the edge. That's what I meant, the pull radius. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
(A miserable pile of secrets.) | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On December 04 2013 10:15 kainzero wrote: Speaking of melee carries, what is a tank? (A miserable pile of secrets.) I'm actually playing castlevania right now, huehuehuehuehue. Seriously though I'll buy into riot's definition for the sake of communication but it doesn't change the fact that, as yango said, good squishy melee auto attacking carries just don't exist in any moba and somehow people borrowed the term from DotA while completely misunderstanding how they work thanks to... "tanks". Cause mobas work just like WoW, of course. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
On December 04 2013 09:58 wei2coolman wrote: Screw diana. I want akali to be viable again. She got with so many nerfs, even when pros weren't even using her. Well she's pretty nuts with the S4 patch. Very minimal counterplay to her lane mecanics and pretty good masteries for being a monster early (flad AD and AP). You just can't pick her in any situations. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 04 2013 10:20 turdburgler wrote: why are people getting so tied up in 1 word definitions of characters as if thats what matters, you all have it backwards. if i say riven is a melee carry, thats not describing the phrase melee carry, thats describing riven. i can call riven a melee carry without any thought towards an umbrella of champs defined as melee carries. you all know what i mean by that but it doesnt need to go any further than that. Then you do that a couple times and you realize your umbrella term doesn't mean anything anymore because there's no meaningful defining feature common to all champs you assigned the term to. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On December 04 2013 10:37 TheYango wrote: Then you do that a couple times and you realize your umbrella term doesn't mean anything anymore because there's no meaningful defining feature common to all champs you assigned the term to. good. imagine how crap the game would be if all "ad carries" played the same. how can we have a game where every hero in the umbrella has to be different enough to be compelling but the same enough to fit our neat labels. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
If you imagine a triangle, on one point you have like Garen/Renekton, then you travel along the line and pass Rengar on your way to Zed/Talon, then you travel past Fiora to the last point of like Yi/Trynd, then connect the first and third points with Aatrox. No one in this triangle really ever has sustained balance. Add in manaless...and it gets worse. See: + Show Spoiler + http://imageshack.com/a/img42/9792/mbz8.jpg | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
On December 04 2013 10:23 phyvo wrote: I'm actually playing castlevania right now, huehuehuehuehue. Seriously though I'll buy into riot's definition for the sake of communication but it doesn't change the fact that, as yango said, good squishy melee auto attacking carries just don't exist in any moba and somehow people borrowed the term from DotA while completely misunderstanding how they work thanks to... "tanks". Cause mobas work just like WoW, of course. It's funny because it works backwards too, it's quite annoying to be flamed in DotA for not picking a tank. I tried Lulu yesterday and she seemed really good from support. With AP your shield/nuke actually mean something. I got hooked three times in lane by Thresh and the end result was their AD carry dying. I also played against Karma who hit me with a Soulflare at level 1 as Zyra, and then Lucian dashed in and killed me just like that. I tried building AD/playing AD at the support position, but I don't feel like you get online fast enough, it felt like playing S2 Tristana where you were garbage in the midgame. Strangely, no one else in blind normals is rushing to play support. You can get absolutely destroyed early game and yet still come online mid/late game as if nothing happened, that's way less stressful than actually trying. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On December 04 2013 10:51 turdburgler wrote: good. imagine how crap the game would be if all "ad carries" played the same. how can we have a game where every hero in the umbrella has to be different enough to be compelling but the same enough to fit our neat labels. We've been calling MF/Varus/Cait/Kog/vayne etc "ranged ADCs" for years and they all play pretty differently from each other and have well defined strengths/weaknesses. Why can't melee carries have both a well defined label and variety as well? | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On December 04 2013 11:12 phyvo wrote: We've been calling MF/Varus/Cait/Kog/vayne etc "ranged ADCs" for years and they all play pretty differently from each other and have well defined strengths/weaknesses. Why can't melee carries have both a well defined label and variety as well? yes, but we allow the phrase ranged adc to be broad rather than constricting, where as the previous conversation went along the lines of "riven isnt a melee carry because i have more constraints to impose" with ranged adc's we just use the label as a quick way of saying ranged physical damage dealer rather than some constricting labeling machine to box up all the champions in to tight groupings. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On December 04 2013 10:57 turdburgler wrote: what does the 3 corners of the triangle represent, instead of just being a list of champions? i dont get it. Its not exhaustive, its a representative list of an set of character archetypes (all related) that riot has been historically incapable of balancing. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 04 2013 11:16 turdburgler wrote: yes, but we allow the phrase ranged adc to be broad rather than constricting, where as the previous conversation went along the lines of "riven isnt a melee carry because i have more constraints to impose" with ranged adc's we just use the label as a quick way of saying ranged physical damage dealer rather than some constricting labeling machine to box up all the champions in to tight groupings. And yet, even as broad as the term is, for the vast majority of the playing population, the term ADC implies that the champ must be played as a bot lane duo laner, when frequently this is no longer the case. It's actually a lot more constricting of a term to most people who use it than you make it out to be. On December 04 2013 10:51 turdburgler wrote: good. imagine how crap the game would be if all "ad carries" played the same. how can we have a game where every hero in the umbrella has to be different enough to be compelling but the same enough to fit our neat labels. I'm not saying the game should match the labels. I'm saying that you shouldn't bother using labels at all unless they're going to meaningfully represent something worth talking about. Look at the term AP carry for example. Since S3 when it's become increasingly less common to run an AP-based magic damage dealing champ mid, when has the term AP carry been useful for discussing anything? It describes a subset of champions, sure, but there's no meaningful gameplay function which those champs are necessary for, as it's become extremely commonplace for one not to be used. The term itself does't correspond to any relevant gameplay concept, and it only did so before because people effectively hemmed themselves into requiring an "AP carry" mid prior to season 3. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On December 04 2013 09:17 Kinie wrote: Well, wasn't Diana pretty OP out of the gates and she's received a ton of nerfs since then? How would we give her a buff that makes her see competitive play again? From my experience of playing as her, maybe a better AP ratio on her Q or R as she is pretty farm dependent to be relevant in teamfights. I know that her R range isn't as long as the Q's range, maybe make the R range be the same as Q's range to help make her diving into the back line easier? Edit: Maybe she just needs a new item build line, as right now I think all she has is a tanky/bruiser build of RoA into Zhonya's or full-out assassin of max AP and 0 survivability. Personally I've tried going Lich Bane into Zhonya's or Abyssal depending upon my team comp and the enemy's team comp (Zhonya's if they have a lot of bursty dmg., Abyssal if my team has several other AP champs). Honestly? Riot needs to pick what they want Diana to be. Do they want her to be a tanky AP fighter or a balls to the walls AP assassin. Right now she's meh on both sides of the coin. If they want to make her tanky AP they need to roll back some of her base damage nerfs on Passive, Q, and W strength so she can do some damage and be in there for a bit If they want to make her an AP assassin, they need to revert the Q/W scaling, ult range(maybe not all of these), and E pull nerfs so she has some utility to go with her damage like Akali has with her shroud. That and find a way to get Moonflair Spellblade on SR without it being stupid. | ||
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