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On December 04 2013 08:19 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 08:11 Slayer91 wrote:On December 04 2013 08:02 Drium wrote:People always say melee carries are bad but nasus, riven, jax, trynd are doing fine. Nasus is a tank Jax is a regular bruiser Trynd has 6 second immunity to all damage and he doesnt see much competitive play anyways Riven is the only maybe applicable one here but still plays more like an assassin Master Yi is the closest I would say to what a melee carry is by the standard definition Plus, its not that Melle carries in lol can't be good, its that they cant be good on a sustained and balanced basis. Of those, only Jax and Nasus have ever been "balanced" for several patch cycles. Those 2 also happen to be the Bruiser/Tank (why am I even talking about them anymore?) and they happen to use mana.
Why aren't melee carries bruisers again? Seems like we define a "melee carry" as any melee that is god awful.
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I think the distinction being made here although I'm not sure if made by everyone is 1-2 def item maximum.
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On December 04 2013 08:24 Haiq343 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 08:15 Shikyo wrote:
Riven imo doesn't count, Riven is a caster...
Master Yi and Fiora are melee carries. Both are shit. Yi is not an auto-attack all-star if that's our definition (see :Riven alternatively). I'm not sure why people are so eager to have a full class cannon AD melee character design. It only works if the hero can get either hugely more powerful than the opposition, or spend significant portions of time completely uncounterable, or both. And really none of that is much fun to play against.
the majority of yi's damage is true dmg from autoattacks these days, since the alpha strike cd reset tweak
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United States47024 Posts
On December 04 2013 08:33 Slusher wrote:
I think the distinction being made here although I'm not sure if made by everyone is 1-2 def item maximum.
Which is not a relevant case to anything. There's basically no melee heroes in any other moba games that function with only 1-2 defensive items either. It's a case that's so irrelevant that it doesn't deserve its own term.
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did euw just die or is it just me ? 
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First promotion game won, second promotion game we're unbelievably far ahead and then 5 people disconnect at once.
EUW ftw.
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On December 04 2013 08:26 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 08:19 cLutZ wrote:On December 04 2013 08:11 Slayer91 wrote:On December 04 2013 08:02 Drium wrote:People always say melee carries are bad but nasus, riven, jax, trynd are doing fine. Nasus is a tank Jax is a regular bruiser Trynd has 6 second immunity to all damage and he doesnt see much competitive play anyways Riven is the only maybe applicable one here but still plays more like an assassin Master Yi is the closest I would say to what a melee carry is by the standard definition Plus, its not that Melle carries in lol can't be good, its that they cant be good on a sustained and balanced basis. Of those, only Jax and Nasus have ever been "balanced" for several patch cycles. Those 2 also happen to be the Bruiser/Tank (why am I even talking about them anymore?) and they happen to use mana. Why aren't melee carries bruisers again? Seems like we define a "melee carry" as any melee that is god awful.
lol.
Yeah, I was going to say, why does a carry have to have multiplicitave damage scaling?
What makes Nasus all that different from a DotA melee carry aside from the less extreme scaling?
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On December 04 2013 08:24 Haiq343 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 08:15 Shikyo wrote:
Riven imo doesn't count, Riven is a caster...
Master Yi and Fiora are melee carries. Both are shit. Yi is not an auto-attack all-star if that's our definition (see :Riven alternatively). I'm not sure why people are so eager to have a full class cannon AD melee character design. It only works if the hero can get either hugely more powerful than the opposition, or spend significant portions of time completely uncounterable, or both. And really none of that is much fun to play against.
Yi definitely is entirely based around basic attacks o.O He only has his Q that deals weak damage as an alternative.
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can you stop spelling it "melle", you have done this for over a year now, you must have seen at least 20 people spelling it differently by now.
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yeah its meele get it together
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melee
Good way to remember it, just think of everyone's favorite lead singer.
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There was a time where Diana, Akali, Morgana, Karthus, Vladimir were all called AP carries...
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Thought that Akali was always hybrid .-. Well, ever since they introduced Gunblade.
Been playing Shyvana top, carrying sure is easier than with Fiora. Can build almost full tank and dunk whole teams np. Also do have hard CC(ultimate). It's also nice that I can just run around doing random shit and everything dies because of all the random AoE
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i dont think ive ever been so infuriated by an euw poop out. the game result doesnt matter so much to me but its just like, pls just 1 day of games .
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On December 04 2013 09:00 turdburgler wrote:i dont think ive ever been so infuriated by an euw poop out. the game result doesnt matter so much to me but its just like, pls just 1 day of games .
Mm after about 5min of mass DC everyone reconnected and we finished the match as normal. This also was the only problem I've had on EUW recently... Hmm and I did have a DC yesterday. And soon after the hotfix my game kept repeatedly crashing every game... But apart from that, it's been working.
I think it's still safe to say that LoL has the worst client out of any game I've played.
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On December 04 2013 08:40 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 08:24 Haiq343 wrote:On December 04 2013 08:15 Shikyo wrote:
Riven imo doesn't count, Riven is a caster...
Master Yi and Fiora are melee carries. Both are shit. Yi is not an auto-attack all-star if that's our definition (see :Riven alternatively). I'm not sure why people are so eager to have a full class cannon AD melee character design. It only works if the hero can get either hugely more powerful than the opposition, or spend significant portions of time completely uncounterable, or both. And really none of that is much fun to play against. Yi definitely is entirely based around basic attacks o.O He only has his Q that deals weak damage as an alternative.
His whole kit is about reducing the cd on Q so he can get 'Yi-sets'...
Whatever, arguing over the definitions and semantics of things is dumb and is essentially arguing over what is a tank, so lets not.
The core point of the post is the critical one, and the idea that people seem to gloss over most frequently when pining for a 'melee carry." Namely that building glass cannon on a melee character is either wildly overpowered or comes with the trade-off that said hero is vulnerable to strong breezes. The notion that it's reasonable to design a melee character that shouldn't need defensive items is just... baffling. Jax, Riven and Nasus are all viable melee ''carries', particularly Jax since there's bound to be semantics qq about Riven and Nasus despite being 1)Melee & 2)ScaryScaling.
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I don't even understand what people mean by "melee carry" anymore. Even by the usual limited definition people usually give with the "auto attack reliant damage champ" - by this definition how is Jax not a melee carry? His entire kit revolves around getting him to rail people with steroid boosted autos, doesn't it?
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On December 04 2013 08:55 Alaric wrote:
There was a time where Diana, Akali, Morgana, Karthus, Vladimir were all called AP carries...
The only thing Diana can carry now is a box of tissues to cry into.
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She doesn't feel nearly as helpless as friggin' Noc.
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On December 04 2013 09:11 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 08:55 Alaric wrote:
There was a time where Diana, Akali, Morgana, Karthus, Vladimir were all called AP carries... The only thing Diana can carry now is a box of tissues to cry into.
Well, wasn't Diana pretty OP out of the gates and she's received a ton of nerfs since then? How would we give her a buff that makes her see competitive play again? From my experience of playing as her, maybe a better AP ratio on her Q or R as she is pretty farm dependent to be relevant in teamfights. I know that her R range isn't as long as the Q's range, maybe make the R range be the same as Q's range to help make her diving into the back line easier?
Edit:
Maybe she just needs a new item build line, as right now I think all she has is a tanky/bruiser build of RoA into Zhonya's or full-out assassin of max AP and 0 survivability. Personally I've tried going Lich Bane into Zhonya's or Abyssal depending upon my team comp and the enemy's team comp (Zhonya's if they have a lot of bursty dmg., Abyssal if my team has several other AP champs).
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EPT
