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On November 30 2013 16:08 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2013 16:05 TheRabidDeer wrote: Jesus Poppy wtf is with that champion? That late game is ridiculous.
I won the lane, took both towers and went 3-1 but she just kept slowly getting cs. 30 minutes rolls around and we CANT kill her. She had stupid amounts of armor so me (riven) and cait (who seemed bad anyway) did no damage to her. Our anivia just kinda flopped over and died. At one point we had 3 people chase her and hit her from our red buff to their side of river and she got away (and our team, now 4 there, lost the team fight). To finish out the game, I pushed my lane and Poppy pushed mid solo and basically did 1v4 (1v2 at first, then killed one and another person came so still 1v2, repeat for a quadra kill).
Probably not the champion itself, but damn so tanky. Play someone with True Damage Ignore her Passive ??? Profit Olaf utterly destroys Poppy imo, play him. Please, you guys forgot about the ultimate Poppy counter, which is Darius. Bleed dominates in lane, then ulti dominates in teamfights.
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Poppy is made of suck. No sticking power, low dps except on her ulted target at higher levels, and slightly more mana than a caster minion. That Q of her's, it's like less than Jayce's E.
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On November 30 2013 17:06 obesechicken13 wrote: Poppy is made of suck. No sticking power, low dps except on her ulted target at higher levels, and slightly more mana than a caster minion. Sticking power really isn't an issue for her. Just hit your E and Q, they shouldn't be there any more afterwords.
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OMFG. Can people stop talking about how poor-to-mediocre champions like Anivia and Poppy are some sort of secret OP? Coincidentally, this time, they both are able to anecdotally be awesome for the same reason: That if they are fed/farmed they are good picks. But last time it was probably someone talking about the Opness of Malz and Heimer's earlygame, or some Sion midgame timing (actually maybe legit, because I stole that from WE instead of TL GD),
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alright, i finally got an account up to 30 to smurf on in ranked. but now i have insane ladder anxiety. I got up to plat 1 on another friend's account, but that was like 3 months ago when i actually played ranked. Now I'm wondering if it was just a fluke or if im like really bad at this game and just got lucky. I'm really nervous about playing ranked and being stuck in silver. too much self-doubt man
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Poppy's good if she's ahead in her lane / wins it. After she gets Sheen and some levels on Q, she's a very effective harrasser. Still, she requires plenty of jungler help and a good matchup.
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day 2 mystery skins:
darkforge jarvan (don't play jarvan, weird splash art, meh) jaximus (fav jax skin, fuck yeah) battle regalia poppy (best poppy skin gg)
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On November 30 2013 18:34 cLutZ wrote: OMFG. Can people stop talking about how pooor-to-mediocre champions like Anivia and Poppy are some sort of secret OP?
sorry...what? is anivia supposed to be bad now?
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On November 30 2013 18:34 cLutZ wrote: OMFG. Can people stop talking about how poor-to-mediocre champions like Anivia and Poppy are some sort of secret OP? Coincidentally, this time, they both are able to anecdotally be awesome for the same reason: That if they are fed/farmed they are good picks. But last time it was probably someone talking about the Opness of Malz and Heimer's earlygame, or some Sion midgame timing (actually maybe legit, because I stole that from WE instead of TL GD),
I don't think Alaric was originally complaining about Anivia being op, just annoying to play against and not as hard as some people think.
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Did TLers just call poppy bad? What is this I don't even.
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On November 30 2013 19:29 BlackPaladin wrote: Did TLers just call poppy bad? What is this I don't even. She even has the word poop in her name. What more proof do you need? Poopy is shit.
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On November 30 2013 19:29 BlackPaladin wrote: Did TLers just call poppy bad? What is this I don't even. She is bad. She is only good when ahead / fed and it's way too unreliable to try to get to that point with her. She has zero waveclear and no ranged abilities. She gets whittled down extremely easily and her burst / CC are situational.
By the way, just played the best match of my life. The whole team was feeding and flaming everyone, ignored all and carried.
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Ninja Rammus - Pretty Good Almost Prom King Amumu - Not bad Scorched Xerath - Booya!
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Taric/Poppy bot-lane season 1 style, you heard it here first.
Taric/AD Sion too.
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I think anivia being in a bad spot really has to do with a lot of the current picks. Syndra, almost every AD mid, and a few other APs make her life very difficult. Blue buff nerfs really, really hurt her much more than most other mids, mostly due to the rate mana expenditure far exceeding almost every other mid. Chalice only somewhat gimps mid-lategame siege potential, but allows for infinite early laning with blue buff. Tear/roa builds want to be gotten first, but then you're stuck either only clearing waves, or basing every few waves if you want to harass as well/take wraiths/wolves until you can pick up a chalice/get enough base mana.
Oh and without blue, you're SOTL. Good thing you're good at defending the first blue....owait.
As for poppy, my opinion is that she's the best champion in the game with a 4+ big item build. Absolutely nuts potential damage output and tankiness.
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Poppy should work the best bottom lane with double relic, indeed.
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I got dragon knight Mordekaiser as mystery gift  I'm a sad panda now.
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Yeah, Anivia (and the way then-CLG.eu played around her) made me go from a CLG.eu fan to a hater who couldn't stand the idea of them getting far in a tournament and wasting more rounds with their 45-minutes long stall fests.
+ Show Spoiler +I'm not saying she's OP, I'm saying she's frustrating to play against. Part of it comes from her being strong against my champion pool in general (eg. not just laning): after Morgana was permabanned my mids have been Swain, then Viktor+Orianna, and I'm currently failing at playing Diana (who'd probably do better though), so I tend to dislike champions like Lux, TF or Anivia who after some time (from first back to post-6 depending) can simply negate my presence if they so wish. Anivia's ult's effective range also means that unless you flash or get the jump on her you should never be able to approach her as Jax/Irelia/etc. since she'll make you slower than her before you reach gap-closing range. I'd rather play against Morgana or Syndra because I find their match-ups to be more interactive for my champions.
I'm not saying that Anivia doesn't have a high skill-ceiling, however when people are saying "X champ has such a high skill-cap wow!" when they see a pro play it or something, they often confuse it with skill-floor. Zed for example had a very high skill-ceiling from release, but because he was broken and, even after nerfs, didn't need to use his shadows for more than gap-closing and could faceroll and still do well, his skill-floor remained low and most players who picked him up as FotM were not playing a high skill-ceiling champ, but a low skill-floor one (not that they are mutually exclusive, they're pretty much independant and compatible). For the record that's also how I feel about Riven, with more bullshit added, or a splitpushing Vlad.
Anivia has a higher skill-floor than, say, Annie. She's squishy, and if you don't know how to abuse tings like her passive or the basic workings of her wall, you'll harm you rather than simply be ineffective. However, once you've got the basics down you have a champion who, while suffering from several hard match-ups (assassins, long-range cc, etc.), has base damage strong enough that her Q ~= 2 spells early game, and added with her E's mechanic you'll lose any trade you initiate if hit by her Q. When you're bootless and you need to get close to hit her, it's not that hard for her (sure, I wouldn't have these issues if I were playing Lux), and post-6 she has a ~800 effective range to slow you, reach you thanks to the slow and get a chilled-E off as a 700-range point'n'click. Depending on match-ups and jungler she can't necessarily abuse it too much in lane, but during the midgame it's still enough damage to make anyone back out if caught before a skirmish.
Then, when you're trying to push, she denies you a lane. Remember how people were more annoyed than thrilled by the prospect of a 40% CDR Lux being able to clear a wave before it even reaches the tower, every 30s, basically stopping any push? Anivia kinda does that (even more so now that homeguard boots are in the game). Sure, you can splitpush and all, and you'd better draft around that because unless you've got Malphite and jumps to avoid being split in 2 under tower by her wall you're not engaging her team. There are comps who splitpush because they're weaker in straight teamfight than the opponent and they planned around it. When Anivia's here, you splitpush because she's potentially weaker in teamfights so she denies you any by herself.
TL;DR: - I'm not saying she's OP (though I do think she's pretty bullshit when it comes to early-midgame damage) or has a low skill-ceiling, I'm saying she has a low skill-floor, including the part making her boring to [being denied to] play against.
- I'm aware that my opinion is biased by my champion pool and my preferences as a spectator. However, I'd rather have ways of stalling, using zone control and such that are more interactive than letting the enemy take all outers/inners and locking down a lane forever. Poke comps try to deny fights, but there's more interaction and they're inherently more risky, hence higher, more exciting stakes and pace.
- Her itemisation complaints sound a bit silly when she has the base damage and ratio to make her go mana items (Tear+Catalyst) and still outdamage people going straight-up Doran's, finishing their RoA or AA staff first, getting a NLR, etc. Noone complains that Kassadin must buy mana over AP and call him weak for it.
- Sure, you can play around her. But if you tell me "she'll deny you any possibility of interacting with her in lane so you should shove in roam" to me it's still her saying she wants to play her own little game alone; I'll simply be playing with the other 4 while mid is locked up. She's not alone, though: with my mid pool I hate playing against Lux and TF too because they'll even counteract your roam with their longer reach.
Regarding Poppy, she's got a 8% max HP auto-refresher every 4 seconds. That's pretty strong. That's around the same health% per second than Jayce, for who raised that. Jayce has silly-dumb dps because of his cannon-QE's huge base and scaling, and the low cooldown on his cannon-W. Hammer-E is an execute or a way to buy time for one more cannon-W, not a dps tool.
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Alaric, your post articulates pretty perfectly what I was trying to say when I posted a few pages back about skill cap. Anivia at my level (low Gold) just presses ER and blows up half your hp every few seconds, and it's so frustrating. It's like back before Zed nerfs where someone said something like "I wonder how far you would get just ulting everyone you see on cd". Skill floor almost nonexistant.
That all being said I really, really fucking hate laning against Anivia.
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Play Talon, fuck her up.
The silence is a pretty big Anivia cockblock, cancels ulti and prevents her from popping Q.
Also instant gapclose. Makes dodging her pitifully slow Qs and telegraphed ER combos easy, since Cutthroat's range is the same as Anivia E. Shuts her down every time.
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