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canikizu
4860 Posts
On November 02 2013 03:16 AsmodeusXI wrote: I can't think of a reason ever why you wouldn't buy it on every Champ with CC. Even if it gave no other stats. How about it gives you a flat amount of cc duration, but also takes away the AP/AD scale for spells? (spells only do flat amount, no bonus now) | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
You'd get the same effect of "pay money on a support to improve/increase CC" out of having a CC active item without creating a balance nightmare. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
oh we can do this all day. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
Why would you want an item like that anyway? If they want to do something like that, they'd just do what they were talking about before and make CC scale with AP on certain champs, which is still pretty fucking dumb. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 02 2013 03:28 canikizu wrote: How about flat amount of cc duration, but divided by the number of champs that got hit. oh we can do this all day. Ok, you could do that. But it still begs the question of what advantage there is to an effect that's more complicated and harder to balance than a stun/slow/silence on a stick. Like, if we're talking accessibility to players seeing the item for the first time, which is more sensible--"this item stuns for x amount of time when you use it on someone", or "this item increases the length of all your CCs, but you lose all your AP/AD/armor/HP/etc. scaling on all your spells for damage and secondary effects and the increased CC duration is variable based on how many targets you hit." Not to mention that being punished for hitting multi-target stuns is a case of unclear optimization. That idea goes against like every established Riot design principle ever. On November 02 2013 03:30 Requizen wrote: or we could not Why would you want an item like that anyway? If they want to do something like that, they'd just do what they were talking about before and make CC scale with AP on certain champs, which is still pretty fucking dumb. The problem with CC scaling on AP is that there is no way to make it have a meaningful effect at low amounts of AP for supports without creating super degenerate cases with farming AP champs unless you create an extremely opaque and convoluted diminishing returns formula which is an insane burden of knowledge. | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
On November 02 2013 03:04 canikizu wrote: Go 1v2 lane. First item Philospher's Pebble + pots. hp + mana regen + free gold. ezpz Dorans shield is still going to be a first buy 1v2 item. Sure the pebble grants you some of the gold you miss but its a first back item buy if anything. You'll need the x2 health regen that dorans grants over just a pebble and by the time pebble pays for itself you probably lost your tower because you were forced out of lane early. I'm really happy with what Riot has done with the vision and gold items. Now I won't have to play dominion when I want to bruiser Taric! As for the new gold and jungle items on laners there is nothing stopping them from buying one. Hell, almost every top laner will want Shurelyas now since once you group as 5 you are not farming waves anyway and that rewards you with bonus gold. Olaf will rise to power in S4 since he likes the speed burst and cdr. Also normal games should be less trolly now that when you have no jungler you can basically farm up a second support in the top lane. And games with 2 junglers should also be fine now with 4 camps and extra gold. The banking system on SotAG might even spill over into dual junglers in ranked play since you can farm your half of the jungle and each camp a lane for XP. Executioners emblem doesnt look as bad as some of you have said. 50 extra HP on a Leona is going to be very nice early. Although I do believe that the heal mechanic should heal both players (2% isn't much) and the Healthbomb doesn't synergize well with a tanky melee support who needs HP to survive. | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
On November 02 2013 03:28 canikizu wrote: How about flat amount of cc duration, but divided by the number of champs that got hit. oh we can do this all day. Why don't you just create an item called Thor's Hammer. Have it upgrade from Phage and give it an active that states "Next basic attack stuns the target for 1 second. (.5 seconds for ranged) (120 second cooldown)" So much easier to balance. | ||
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Inschato
Canada1349 Posts
Also: The healthbomb is a temporary shield which if you're not at 100%, is going to net you more mitigation than the health alone would have since it's current health --> max health shield. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On November 02 2013 03:31 TheYango wrote: The problem with CC scaling on AP is that there is no way to make it have a meaningful effect at low amounts of AP for supports without creating super degenerate cases with farming AP champs unless you create an extremely opaque and convoluted diminishing returns formula which is an insane burden of knowledge. Hard cap on the length o/ | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On November 02 2013 03:35 Ghost-z wrote: Why don't you just create an item called Thor's Hammer. Have it upgrade from Phage and give it an active that states "Next basic attack stuns the target for 1 second. (.5 seconds for ranged) (120 second cooldown)" So much easier to balance. But they can't call it Thor's hammer. Instead they should name it Super Ultron Boogie Cannon and make the target dance for 1,5 seconds. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Touche. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On November 02 2013 03:31 TheYango wrote: Ok, you could do that. But it still begs the question of what advantage there is to an effect that's more complicated and harder to balance than a stun/slow/silence on a stick. Like, if we're talking accessibility to players seeing the item for the first time, which is more sensible--"this item stuns for x amount of time when you use it on someone", or "this item increases the length of all your CCs, but you lose all your AP/AD/armor/HP/etc. scaling on all your spells for damage and secondary effects and the increased CC duration is variable based on how many targets you hit." Not to mention that being punished for hitting multi-target stuns is a case of unclear optimization. That idea goes against like every established Riot design principle ever. The problem with CC scaling on AP is that there is no way to make it have a meaningful effect at low amounts of AP for supports without creating super degenerate cases with farming AP champs unless you create an extremely opaque and convoluted diminishing returns formula which is an insane burden of knowledge. It's just a matter of writing description. Just throw some out, if players don't understand, they're gonna whine, then we fix ezpz until nooone whines anymore. Trial and error stuff. something like UNIQUE passive suckforutobuyAPAD: Disable AP/AD scaling while casting spells/spells only do flat original amount of damage UNIQUE passive cccity: increase the stun/knockback duration of your spell buy a flat amount of 0.5sec. The duration depends on the number of champion hit by it. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
\o That's what she said. | ||
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Doctorbeat
Netherlands13241 Posts
Can't believe people still aren't banning her in Silver I. | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
o/ Yeah Nidalee is really stupid right now. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 02 2013 03:47 canikizu wrote: It's just a matter of writing description. Just throw some out, if players don't understand, they're gonna whine, then we fix ezpz until nooone whines anymore. Trial and error stuff. something like UNIQUE passive suckforutobuyAPAD: Disable AP/AD scaling while casting spells/spells only do flat original amount of damage UNIQUE passive cccity: increase the stun/knockback duration of your spell buy a flat amount of 0.5sec. The duration depends on the number of champion hit by it. You're still just ignoring the question of how this is better design than a CC active. And again, its still unclear optimization. Riot would have a fit over the idea of your stun duration being less for hitting a 5 person stun than for hitting a 1 person stun with the same spell. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
On November 02 2013 03:57 GhandiEAGLE wrote: o/ Yeah Nidalee is really stupid right now. She was never not stupid | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 02 2013 04:01 oneofthem wrote: cc in lol is so powerful given the mega mega damage of everything being tossed about late game. a reliable hard cc item would be pretty powerful and expensive . Why does it have to be reliable or hard CC? Why is it fundamentally more powerful than +CC duration on existing CCs? | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On November 02 2013 03:31 Ghost-z wrote: Executioners emblem doesnt look as bad as some of you have said. 50 extra HP on a Leona is going to be very nice early. Although I do believe that the heal mechanic should heal both players (2% isn't much) and the Healthbomb doesn't synergize well with a tanky melee support who needs HP to survive. Emblem has the highest GP/10 of all of the items out of the gate too, so its tough to discount it. Executioners gives you Melee+5 gold/wave. So call it 20 gold for you for last hitting it and 25 for your carry. Philo Pebble gives you 12 gold/wave, guaranteed so long as you're at the wave. Kage's Pick is in the middle 30 seconds/wave so 18-30 gold/wave so long as you can Auto attack both enemies every 10 seconds but of course is only 6/wave if you can't do that. On the other hand you also get 2 GP/10 when not at minions which is a nice boon. That being said the real advantage of Executioners is that an ADC can buy it to give gold to their support. And they can do this and still get a relatively strong sustain early start since its pretty cheap. The 2% healing bonus/wave is not insignificant and will really help supports who don't have as much sustain stay in lane against heavy pokers. On November 01 2013 21:49 Slayer91 wrote: also sona got nerfed pretty bad it seems. She lost some of her heal and power chord damage, and her ap ratios are even worse (q +passive ap ratio is the same, R is worse), oh well, maybe taric and soraka are viable again I wouldn't mind going back to playing those. (tarics passive seems meh though, worse than it was before with no real mana items and just autoing for -3 seconds on heal, but who knows) Well Sona with items would be true terror(I mean just look at Seraphs/Lichbane Sona in ARAM) so I am not surprised at it. Especially since the new gold changes reward winning lane so much more this makes bully supports like Sona much much stronger. | ||
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