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Well, step 1 of the slows vs. boosts argument is that all, if not most, speed boosts should remove slows when triggered (not snares or stuns, obviously).
Slows should not stack, instead, the strongest slow should be applied, both debuffs should remain individually, of course, in case the stronger slow wears off sooner.
This makes a matchup like Udyr vs. Kayle far more interesting. Kayle is incentivised to wait to Q after Udyr Bearforms, and Udyr to wait on bear, but if either waits too long then its a waste. Skill is rewarded much more in that system.
As for determining MS, whatever boots gives you should be added to your base MS for calculating everything else. This is fix #2 that would likely improve most things.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 15 2013 07:10 cLutZ wrote:
This makes a matchup like Udyr vs. Kayle far more interesting. Kayle is incentivised to wait to Q after Udyr Bearforms, and Udyr to wait on bear, but if either waits too long then its a waste. Skill is rewarded much more in that system.
Except that's not how it works. The slow % scales to his new MS even after he Bears. She's not punished for Qing first whatsoever.
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On November 15 2013 07:13 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 07:10 cLutZ wrote:
This makes a matchup like Udyr vs. Kayle far more interesting. Kayle is incentivised to wait to Q after Udyr Bearforms, and Udyr to wait on bear, but if either waits too long then its a waste. Skill is rewarded much more in that system.
Except that's not how it works. The slow % scales to his new MS even after he Bears. She's not punished for Qing first whatsoever.
I'm saying in the proposed system wherein Bearform removes slows.
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France45622 Posts
Urgh. URGH. Spells don't even cast. EUW for you.
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Looking at this list the majority of slows are on melee champs while speed boosts are equally split between melee and ranged champions.
So it seems that nerfing slows would really be a net nerf to melee champions.
The problem is not the MS system as much as it is the prevalence of gap closers/displacement abilities.
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It comes down to Riots "burden of knowledge" argument.
Changing the system so that all slows and boosts both scale off of a champions base move speed makes it easier to understand reducing the burden of knowledge. 10% speed boost + 10% slow = 0 net change
But to change this would require Riot to rebalance every move speed boost and slow in the game and that increases the burden of knowledge.
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On November 15 2013 07:31 Ghost-z wrote:
It comes down to Riots "burden of knowledge" argument.
Changing the system so that all slows and boosts both scale off of a champions base move speed makes it easier to understand reducing the burden of knowledge. 10% speed boost + 10% slow = 0 net change
But to change this would require Riot to rebalance every move speed boost and slow in the game and that increases the burden of knowledge.
Good thing we have a preseason going on right now. >.>
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I don't really see a problem with the current system other than its hard to do maths. If you want champ X with a 10% boost to negate champ Y with a 10% slow then you could just buff champ X to a 12% boost. Of course then you run the risk of Champ X being too strong against champs with no CC. This is basically what Riot does now.
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I know right. Lee sin and warwick are my 3rd and 4th most played champs and I haven't touched them in a year basically.
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Looking at my match history from a year ago, all the people I played with are really high-ranked now...
Man I feel like shit now lol
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I'm having a little difficulty trusting that. One of my Riven games was recorded at being around 50,000 minutes long and has skewed my results pretty heavily :/. I don't know how good the rest of it is.
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I dunno, mine seems very accurate. I should start playing Lee again is what this tells me. First penta kill at level 27 or something. Watching saint's stream while he ranked up in korea Lee was the first champ I ever saw that could jump over walls to clear jungle camps.
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Does reinstalling the game mess up your stats?
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On November 15 2013 07:09 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 07:07 obesechicken13 wrote:
You're right about slows overpowering movement speed boosts but that's how the game should be imo.
Why? Intuitively, a slow and a speed boost of the same percentage canceling each other makes logical sense. From a gameplay perspective, it's clearly not a problem for MS-based champs to get a little bet of help. So why do we need a more convoluted game mechanic when the simple, intuitive one suffices?
If every mechanic in the game cancelled out with other mechanics then there wouldn't be any little intricacies to the game. Right now we can play around the knowledge that slows are as strong as movement speed buffs and I'm fine with that.
Someone has to lose out here. Either the melees with no gap closers have to feel horrible when they get kited or ranged champions have to feel horrible situations where their cc does nothing.
On November 15 2013 07:59 WiseBagus wrote:
Does reinstalling the game mess up your stats?
Yes.
I have this huge spike in October 19th in terms of number of hours played. Wait... what? I think I must have played a bit Friday or something.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On November 15 2013 08:00 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 07:09 TheYango wrote:On November 15 2013 07:07 obesechicken13 wrote:
You're right about slows overpowering movement speed boosts but that's how the game should be imo.
Why? Intuitively, a slow and a speed boost of the same percentage canceling each other makes logical sense. From a gameplay perspective, it's clearly not a problem for MS-based champs to get a little bet of help. So why do we need a more convoluted game mechanic when the simple, intuitive one suffices? If every mechanic in the game cancelled out with other mechanics then there wouldn't be any little intricacies to the game. Right now we can play around the knowledge that slows are as strong as movement speed buffs and I'm fine with that. Someone has to lose out here. Either the melees with no gap closers have to feel horrible when they get kited or ranged champions have to feel horrible situations where their cc does nothing.Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 07:59 eBagus wrote:
Does reinstalling the game mess up your stats? Yes. I have this huge spike in October 19th in terms of number of hours played. That was the day after my last day of work lol. + Show Spoiler +
I kind of disagree with you on this point because I feel like there are a ton of champions with slows that are kind of randomly in their kit, and not factored into the champs' balance much. Examples would be: Aatrox E, Cassio W, Galio Q, Gragas E, Kass E, Kha6 W, and thats just the 1st half of the alphabet.
If you took out those slows, how much additional damage would you give those champs? 1%? 2%?
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They could just make "slow resist" stronger than it currently is and it would solve the "melees that rely on +MS to close gaps" problem without a redesign of fundamental game mechanics. In fact, you could get an "additive MS slow" effect somewhat easily if you made a champion with a +%MS ability that also gave an appropriate amount of % slow resist.
I feel like slow resist was an interesting mechanic they introduced in s3 that they didn't really push far enough.
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France45622 Posts
Lolparse hasn't found anything post-23rd March of 2012 for me. Says Sona's my "favourite" champion (would prob be something like Viktor, Vi, Lulu, Zyra or Jax by now).
On November 15 2013 06:18 CTStalker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 05:44 AsmodeusXI wrote:On November 15 2013 05:43 GettingIt wrote:
What if this new dude is actually an AP mid just to throw everyone off. I really wish Riot would do this someday, but they seem to enjoy creating a strict aesthetic guideline for their roles... along with their strict definitions of the roles. T_T I dunno, how much in common does gragas have aesthetically with other mid laners? In general, I agree with you though.
Armoured Swain skin please.
Also interesting assets on the PBE regarding new players.
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On November 15 2013 08:55 Alaric wrote:Lolparse hasn't found anything post-23rd March of 2012 for me. Says Sona's my "favourite" champion (would prob be something like Viktor, Vi, Lulu, Zyra or Jax by now). Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 06:18 CTStalker wrote:On November 15 2013 05:44 AsmodeusXI wrote:On November 15 2013 05:43 GettingIt wrote:
What if this new dude is actually an AP mid just to throw everyone off. I really wish Riot would do this someday, but they seem to enjoy creating a strict aesthetic guideline for their roles... along with their strict definitions of the roles. T_T I dunno, how much in common does gragas have aesthetically with other mid laners? In general, I agree with you though. Armoured Swain skin please. Also interesting assets on the PBE regarding new players.
that's exactly when it said my first game was...but i think that might have been when i started playing (i think it was sejuani/lulu era)
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Wjqgj2o.png)
